The Attack on the 2nd Amendment Continues

Hacker15e said:
We are actually a society that cultivates the idea that issues must be binary. We are raised to think of things as black-and-white, good-vs-evil, love/hate, my team vs your team, Republican vs Democrat, liberal vs conservative, religious vs athiest, "you're either with us or against us", etc. We want to flatly categorize people as a "good person" or a "bad person".

I think it is a major failure of our culture. I much prefer the eastern/Asian yin/yang way of looking at the world -- that in all things, including us as humans, there are shades of good and bad. That we are all people who have elements of good and bad in us, and those values can change depending on circumstance and influence. That in order to know our own opinion, we have to understand and respect the opinions of others. That "our way" isn't necessarily the only way or even the best way. The "shades of gray" worldview also allows non-binary associations, like being a Libertarian, or being agnostic, or being a generally good person who has done something bad.

I believe it is this middle of the road where a lot of people would live if they did not feel culturally pressured or socialized into having to choose one of two possible "sides".
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My senior thesis was on this subject- dialetheism- which is basically that there is gray between true and false. While there are many absolute truths and falsehoods, there are many gray areas with things like this as well.

I'm very much a religious person, but the fact is that many things are gray, particularly when it comes to politics. I am extremely concerned with Obama's speech tonight as well as this bill that another major knee jerk attempt at fixing the symptom (just like the TSA and obamacare) is shoved through without actually addressing the underlying problem.

Ah, modern politics.

Totally in agreement with PCL on this one!
 
I don't really think that you can call a demand for tougher gun laws knee jerk no matter how you feel about it.

We have been living with this problem for so long I think everyone has been thinking of ways to combat the problem for quite some time.

If you haven't been considering what we should do about it then you are inhuman.

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mad2fly said:
I don't really think that you can call a demand for tougher gun laws knee jerk no matter how you feel about it.

We have been living with this problem for so long I think everyone has been thinking of ways to combat the problem for quite some time.

If you haven't been considering what we should do about it then you are inhuman.
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Sorry, that is fixing the symptom- not the problem.
 
If this goes through, I recommend not buying all the ARs you can get, but buying as many stripped lower receivers as you can get. This will be the "banned" part just like auto weapons. So stock up on those at $130 a pop and either build them up and sell them, or just sell them as is down the road. That is my plan. I really hope it doesn't come to that though.
 
mad2fly said:
I don't really think that you can call a demand for tougher gun laws knee jerk no matter how you feel about it.

We have been living with this problem for so long I think everyone has been thinking of ways to combat the problem for quite some time.
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Nobody argues that the incidents are tragic and need to be addressed - that is "the problem".

What is kneejerk is twofold: the automatic causal association people are making between the actions and firearms, and the belief that "assault weapons", the sizes of magazines, etc, (or any other firearms law) have anything to do with these incidents happening.
 
I don't own a gun. Yet I'm not afraid of them in any way. I'm a full supporter of 2nd Amendment rights.

I learned to shoot when I was 9 years old, and I'm a pretty damn good shot, if I do say so myself. Just because I don't own a gun at this particular moment in my life doesn't mean I'm afraid of them, or hate them, or think that no one else should have one! Or even that I won't ever have one, I very well might, just not at *this* time in my life.

So don't think for one moment that just because I don't own a gun means I'm "afraid" of them or think they're "bad".
 
So in multiple pages on forums, hundreds of arguments and responses, television discussions with people crying and saying "Ban these horrible weapons", I've yet to hear anyone really say HOW disarming citizens and limiting gun sales will stop these acts from happening?

I also just heard a news story about a small community in the US that turned in their guns for money because of the shooting in CT. If I go to my police station this morning and turn my gun in, will that help prevent gun violence?
 
Hacker15e said:
Nobody argues that the incidents are tragic and need to be addressed - that is "the problem".

What is kneejerk is twofold: the automatic causal association people are making between the actions and firearms, and the belief that "assault weapons", the sizes of magazines, etc, (or any other firearms law) have anything to do with these incidents happening.
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Knee Jerk- an immediate unthinking emotional reaction produced by an event or statement to which the reacting person is highly sensitive; - in persons with strong feelings on a topic, it may be very predictable.

I think you've totally overlooked the point. People's reactions may be all of the above except immediate. My point was that yes people voice their opinions after these tragedies but they are opinions they've held for a long time so they are not knee jerk.

No more than all the people who come out saying more citizens need to buy guns are having a knee jerk reaction. This is something they quite often say but it gets more press after these sorts of tragedies.

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ATN_Pilot said:
Yeah, I know. :) I support a constitutional amendment to outlaw abortion, too. My lib friends can get quite annoyed at my two conservative positions. :)
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I hear ya! People are surprised when I, a liberal, say I support the creation of a sterilization implant for males that would be inserted about the same time they're circumcised so we can prevent them from causing pregnancies that lead to abortion.
 
Hacker15e said:
Nobody argues that the incidents are tragic and need to be addressed - that is "the problem".

What is kneejerk is twofold: the automatic causal association people are making between the actions and firearms, and the belief that "assault weapons", the sizes of magazines, etc, (or any other firearms law) have anything to do with these incidents happening.
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By the way how will they enforce a ban on assault weapons? They will use assault weapons. Those who wish to oppress will always first seek to take away your right to defend yourself. We know violent movies that come out of Hollywood are desensitizing Americans. We know crimes have been committed based off of Hollywood movies. We know that even shooters have dressed up like characters in certain hollywood movies before committing senseless acts of violence. Yet I see no petition to shut down hollywood. We know video games are violent and they desensitize Americans. Yet, I see no petition to shut down the video game industry. This reminds me of feudal Japan, where the peasants were not even allowed to carry a 2 inch blade. Soon training in martial arts was banned as well, as they became well trained enough to punch through armor. Thai Chi originated as “a dance” and not a martial art. Many ordinary tools became weapons, such as the sai, and the cane. All this promoted the rise of the ninja. For them, everything was a weapon. Including superstition. Also by becoming completely lawless, The ninja also became completely free.
 
brent p h said:
By the way how will they enforce a ban on assault weapons? They will use assault weapons. Those who wish to oppress will always first seek to take away your right to defend yourself.We know violent movies that come out of Hollywood are desensitizing Americans. We know crimes have been committed based off of Hollywood movies. We know that even shooters have dressed up like characters in certain hollywood movies before committing senseless acts of violence. Yet I see no petition to shut down hollywood. We know video games are violent and they desensitize Americans. Yet, I see no petition to shut down the video game industry. This reminds me of feudal Japan, where the peasants were not even allowed to carry a 2 inch blade. Soon training in martial arts was banned as well, as they became well trained enough to punch through armor. Thai Chi originated as “a dance” and not a martial art. Many ordinary tools became weapons, such as the sai, and the cane. All this promoted the rise of the ninja. For them, everything was a weapon. Including superstition. Also by becoming completely lawless, The ninja also became completely free.
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Is this you?

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/whi...n-quickly-surpasses-required-signature-count/

Trigus

Posted on December 15, 2012 at 9:21am
THE Firearm was just the instrument. what where the contributing factors that led to this senseless act of violence? Illegal Drugs? Hollywood? Video Games?
We know violent movies that come out of Hollywood are desensitizing Americans. We know crimes have been committed based off of Hollywood movies. We know that even shooters have dressed up like characters in certain hollywood movies before committing senseless acts of violence. Yet I see no petition to shut down hollywood.
We know video games are violent and they desensitize Americans. Yet, I see no petition to shut down the video game industry.
We all know alcohol is a contributing factor to a lot of violent acts and the cause of many deaths, both young and old from drunk drivers. Yet, I see no petition to ban alcohol, nor a petition to ban vehicles which are just a instrument of destruction.
Look to the contributing factors that led to this senseless act of violence and start banning these contributing factors before you ban the instrument.
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