The Attack on the 2nd Amendment Continues

Some pretty neat testimony at yesterday's Gun Violence Prevention summit in Connecticut from an immigrant from China. How apropos that someone who came to the US by choice understands quite clearly the value of the protections he enjoys as an American citizen and the background of attempts to curb crime by nipping at those protections.


One of the parents of a child murdered at Sandy Hook gets it, too.

 
Interesting response from the NY Sheriff's Association to the NY 2013 AWB. I am happily surprised to see the majority of their perspective on this issue. I wish more public servants felt this way.

http://www.nysheriffs.org/articles/sheriffs’-response-ny-safe-act

•Method of bill passage. It is the view of the Sheriffs’ Association that anytime government decides it is necessary or desirable to test the boundaries of a constitutional right that it should only be done with caution and with great respect for those constitutional boundaries. Further, it should only be done if the benefit to be gained is so great and certain that it far outweighs the damage done by the constriction of individual liberty. While many of the provisions of the new law have surface appeal, it is far from certain that all, or even many, of them will have any significant effect in reducing gun violence, which is the presumed goal of all of us. Unfortunately the process used in adoption of this act did not permit the mature development of the arguments on either side of the debate, and thus many of the stakeholders in this important issue are left feeling ignored by their government. Even those thrilled with the passage of this legislation should be concerned about the process used to secure its passage, for the next time they may find themselves the victim of that same process.
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Hacker15e said:
Some pretty neat testimony at yesterday's Gun Violence Prevention summit in Connecticut from an immigrant from China. How apropos that someone who came to the US by choice understands quite clearly the value of the protections he enjoys as an American citizen and the background of attempts to curb crime by nipping at those protections.


One of the parents of a child murdered at Sandy Hook gets it, too.

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This is a great example of a post on how to explain an argument with youtube videos that keeps the forum in good shape. Thanks!
 
A very nice read from a self-described liberal about his views on the AWB and gun control in general.

http://liberaltaria.com/?p=7

As someone who has done a complete 180 from liberal firearm skeptic and supporter of gun control to now being an ardent supporter of second amendment rights (and a responsible gun owner), I feel like I am uniquely qualified to speak to those individuals whose views I used to share. I’d like to believe I’m a reasonable and objective-minded person, and I want them to read a different perspective on gun control — one that arises from personal experience and research and is not filled with the hyperbole and mis-information we see all over television.

I feel like many people, including most liberal politicians, treat gun control like most conservatives treat sex education or climate change. Their views and thus the policies they support are based entirely on ideology, with only the most cursory attempts at studying the facts. They are blinded by confirmation bias, cherry picking factual evidence to support their foregone conclusion. This is why gun owners can find it hard to even come to the table to have the “gun control” conversation; they are convinced the other side made up their collective minds long ago and are NOT interested in an honest discussion. Many times, it seems their sole focus seems to be on restricting gun rights as much as possible, regardless of whether or not it will help to prevent tragedy. Unfortunately, after the spectacle in the media I’ve seen in the past few weeks, I’d have to agree.
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scooter2525 said:
I've been seeing this float around the internet and am curious to JC opinion, and the part on the medication usage.

http://www.naturalnews.com/038616_John_Noveske_mysterious_death_car_crash.html#ixzz2J8j9GwXG
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Opinion as to a link between psychiatric drugs and mass shootings? That seems like an expected correlation (mass shootings/suicides committed by disturbed people, who are more likely to be on meds), but establishing causation is a different story. It certainly would be worth looking into.

As to the article's insinuation that unexplained tragedy is befalling outspoken gun rights activists...really Qutch? Obama's kill list?
 
While I do believe that the mental health and treatment of these shooters should be more closely analyzed and known (why is it that we know in detail what kinds of firearms these criminals used, but know nothing of what drugs they were using if any?), I think it's tinfoilhattery linking Noveske's death to an internet post on the subject.
 
So people kill people because they're on drugs to treat their mental illness?

Not that crazy people kill people because they're mentally ill and thus...crazy?

If this is considered rational these days, we're boned.
 
Hacker15e said:
While I do believe that the mental health and treatment of these shooters should be more closely analyzed and known (why is it that we know in detail what kinds of firearms these criminals used, but know nothing of what drugs they were using if any?), I think it's tinfoilhattery linking Noveske's death to an internet post on the subject.
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HIPAA combined with doctor/patient confidentially would be my guess.
 
Hacker15e

I've never heard of Ted Cruz before you posted your letter. But after reading it and watching this video of him display FACTS to the gun control committee and people, I am really starting to like the guy. He uses Department of Justice facts and shows them on big ole' poster boards that the AWB didn't work the first time, so why would it work now?

I recommend watching the video to reassure you that there is at least 1 person with common sense in Washington D.C.

 
zmiller4 said:
As to the article's insinuation that unexplained tragedy is befalling outspoken gun rights activists...really Qutch? Obama's kill list?
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Seemed far fetched to me as well. I wanted to post the "source" where they discussed the medication and that included the rest of the article.
 
jtrain609 said:
So people kill people because they're on drugs to treat their mental illness?

Not that crazy people kill people because they're mentally ill and thus...crazy?

If this is considered rational these days, we're boned.
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Crazy kills, that makes sense. I think its worth looking into how medication can have adverse side effects and if those specific medication have a negative side effects that cause people to do this. Obvious mental issues need help, but popping a pill might not be the solution and that leads to these issues. Just throwing ideas out here.
 
jtrain609 said:
So people kill people because they're on drugs to treat their mental illness?

Not that crazy people kill people because they're mentally ill and thus...crazy?

If this is considered rational these days, we're boned.
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That's definitely not what I was implying by my post.

I was saying that, if we are really serious about getting to the root causes of mass murders, an actual gathering of the facts about their mental illnesses (if applicable) or the medications they were using (if applicable) is absolutely necessary. I'm not suggesting a causal link or even correlation -- but how can we ever know if it is not investigated and analyzed? There certainly appears to be enough coincidences between mass violence and the mental health of the murderers that it bears looking into, with at least as much depth and intensity as those who place the blame on the implements used in the crimes.

Do we really want to find the root causes, or do we just want to find a convenient scapegoat to hang it on so we can move on to chasing the next squirrel that runs past the front of the cage?

I actually have no problems with even gathering data about firearms used in crime -- I think Pres Obama's EOs regarding that are well intentioned and could yield important information for future discussion/debate. So long as the raw data is available to everyone (theoretically disallowing agenda-driven interpretations of that data), then I'm game to see if there are real patterns. We really do have to look at all the angles if we want to find root causes. No sacred cows.

I find the HIPAA privacy policy mention especially interesting, especially since any proposal to have "universal background checks" necessarily requires "everyman" to have direct access to information directly derived from HIPAA privacy policy-protected information.

So, on one hand we can't violate the privacy of criminals to go investigate the medical records and treatment of those criminals in the name of getting to the bottom of root causes of actual crimes they've committed, but lawmakers are pushing for laws which require widespread access to derivatives of that information for individuals to sell their private property to one another.
 
Hacker15e said:
M60: regulated as a machine gun under the 1934 NFA and subject to tightly controlled restrictions on ownership.

Veteran suffering from severe PTSD and having committed several serious crimes: would not be eligible to own the M60 under the NFA restrictions.
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Stop bringing facts into this. Spewing rhetoric and making emotionally based calls for regulation are much better for the common good...
 
jtrain609 said:
So people kill people because they're on drugs to treat their mental illness?

Not that crazy people kill people because they're mentally ill and thus...crazy?

If this is considered rational these days, we're boned.
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I guess you've never watched those drug commercials that warn takers of anti-depression drugs that the very drugs they're taking to help their depression could actually make them more depressed and even suicidal. If an anti-depressant has been proven to cause depression and suicide, then I don't see why "we're boned" simply because someone asks a question about whether some mental illness drugs might lead to violence.
 
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