The Attack on the 2nd Amendment Continues

jtrain609 said:
I think it will be legislated, and I think it will be found to be constitutional.
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I think that's probable to be constitutional (even though I personally don't think so, but likely by virtue of the fact that other rights, like voting, can require registration -- this one I don't feel that I'm "Constitutionally scholarly" enough to comment on), but I don't know that such a measure would pass Congress.

There is a serious fear out of firearms rights folks that registration is a watershed event that leads to future confiscation should the winds of RKBA change in the future. Regardless of if it sounds like slippery-slope tinhattery, there are a good chunk of firearms owners (even the ones that the left considers 'legitimate' firearms owners: hunters and shotgun sportsmen) who quite seriously are scared of this.

In addition, there is the obvious cost of such a measure compared to what benefits in combating crimes committed with firearms. Certainly the failure of Canada's firearm registry to have any worthwhile impact despite its immense cost and effort can be pointed to as an argument against it.
 
Hacker15e said:
I think that's probable to be constitutional (even though I personally don't think so, but likely by virtue of the fact that other rights, like voting, can require registration -- this one I don't feel that I'm "Constitutionally scholarly" enough to comment on), but I don't know that such a measure would pass Congress.

There is a serious fear out of firearms rights folks that registration is a watershed event that leads to future confiscation should the winds of RKBA change in the future. Regardless of if it sounds like slippery-slope tinhattery, there are a good chunk of firearms owners (even the ones that the left considers 'legitimate' firearms owners: hunters and shotgun sportsmen) who quite seriously are scared of this.

In addition, there is the obvious cost of such a measure compared to what benefits in combating crimes committed with firearms. Certainly the failure of Canada's firearm registry to have any worthwhile impact despite its immense cost and effort can be pointed to as an argument against it.
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What are folks afraid of? That with the database the government would come in after you for your guns like you were Jewish and living in 1930's Germany?

If that's the case, then there are a few flaws:

1. Anybody that came for those guns would be shot.

2. Anybody that came for those gun would be shot again.

3. The body would never be found.

4. The ATF would find a lack of volunteers really quickly.

Or in other words, the problem solves itself.
 
jtrain609 said:
What are folks afraid of? That with the database the government would come in after you for your guns like you were Jewish and living in 1930's Germany?

If that's the case, then there are a few flaws:

1. Anybody that came for those guns would be shot.

2. Anybody that came for those gun would be shot again.

3. The body would never be found.

4. The ATF would find a lack of volunteers really quickly.

Or in other words, the problem solves itself.
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To me its the idea of "them" knowing I have the firearm. So in theory, yes, I would be afraid of that happening.

The self solving problem seems to be irrelevant and I don't believe it would be how the agenda would be played out. Opinion only of course.
 
n57flyguy said:
To me its the idea of "them" knowing I have the firearm. So in theory, yes, I would be afraid of that happening.

The self solving problem seems to be irrelevant and I don't believe it would be how the agenda would be played out. Opinion only of course.
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Then how else would it play out? The ATF sending an M1A1 to every gun owner's house?
 
jtrain609 said:
What are folks afraid of? That with the database the government would come in after you for your guns like you were Jewish and living in 1930's Germany?
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Uh yeah, I would say that's exactly what a lot of us are afraid of.

But then again, I sold all my guns. I don't have anything to register....
 
What happens, hypothetically, if the following occur?

Texas, Louisiana, Oklahoma, and "the others" simply decide to not abide by further gun control? Or Obamacare? What happens legally? Does the President declare martial law? Suspend all financial transactions for the belligerent state (like we've done with nations at times)? Short of an invasion, what would happen if a state doesn't secede but simply says "You suck, your rules suck, we aren't doing this"? Has that precedent ever happened before?
 
jtrain609 said:
Then how else would it play out? The ATF sending an M1A1 to every gun owner's house?
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I would expect a Martial Law scenario. Not a guy or two, but an army. Obvious speculation of worst case scenario, but if the government wants to disarm its citizens, it will be a quick and "painless" sweep.
 
n57flyguy said:
I would expect a Martial Law scenario. Not a guy or two, but an army. Obvious speculation of worst case scenario, but if the government wants to disarm its citizens, it will be a quick and "painless" sweep.
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If the government comes to a persons house and attempts to take their weapons in a situation like you are describing, then if the revolution does not start on that persons doorstep, they are a coward, and never deserved to be called a citizen of these United States in the first place.
 
jtrain609 said:
If the government comes to a persons house and attempts to take their weapons in a situation like you are describing, then if the revolution does not start on that persons doorstep, they are a coward, and never deserved to be called a citizen of these United States in the first place.
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Don't let it be my goddamn doorstep then.

Again, worst case scenario, however the government knowing if I have guns is like me wearing a shirt that says I CC. The point of me possibly having self defense weapons is the intruder/attacker not knowing they are there. It is no one else business, because it is my right, and theirs as well.
 
Anyone who thinks that we are somehow immune to what happened in Germany, Poland, Russia, or any other of a dozen countries over the past 100 years is a fool. I bet those people didn't see a problem with it at the time and no one ever expected what happened next. To me, gun registration is an invasion of privacy. What's to stop the police from doing something like, "ok this person was killed with a 45ACP...lets see who all owns a 45ACP that knew this person." The more I think about it, the more I feel like all our gun laws are unconstitutional. NFA registration and tax stamps...BS.
 
Don't forget the huge gun confiscation in the aftermath of Katrina. Police and national guardsmen went house to house to seize civilian guns and did so at gun point.

But oh no it can't or won't happen here!
 
Pilotdude3407 said:
What's to stop the police from doing something like, "ok this person was killed with a 45ACP...lets see who all owns a 45ACP that knew this person."
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That scenario is actually the the one scenario that gun control advocates would hang their hat on as the whole "public safety" point of registration. Nevermind that most murders are accomplished with stolen firearms, or that "criminals" aren't going to participate in a registration scheme, anyway.

Again, I'm not for registration, but you picked the one most likely utility of it.
 
dbrault17 said:
Don't forget the huge gun confiscation in the aftermath of Katrina. Police and national guardsmen went house to house to seize civilian guns and did so at gun point.

But oh no it can't or won't happen here!
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FWIW, there is now a Federal law that prohibits this, which was a direct result of the Mayor's and Police Chief's actions/directions during the Katrina aftermath.

I agree that the US is not immune to the possibility that our republic at some point in the future might amend/overturn the 2A and firearms might be confiscated. I also agree that the US is not immune to some totalitarian takeover at some theoretical point in the future, either by legal or illegal means (after all, who foresaw that we'd live in an era with warrantless wiretaps and the government assassinating American citizens without public due process).

BUT....

What happened after Katrina, however, is also a good example of how our republic identifies things that go wrong and fixes itself so as to be better in the future. The whole, "in order to form a more perfect union" concept at work.
 
My personal belief is that the movers and shakers that REALLY run the show are tickled to pieces that things like gun control take so much of people's time and effort. It keeps us from paying attention to the more serious ways that freedoms are being eroded in this country that have nothing to do with firearms.

"Oh look, a butterfly!"
 
SteveC said:
My personal belief is that the movers and shakers that REALLY run the show are tickled to pieces that things like gun control take so much of people's time and effort. It keeps us from paying attention to the more serious ways that freedoms are being eroded in this country that have nothing to do with firearms.

"Oh look, a butterfly!"
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A few co workers and myself have been having a similar discussion. It's the distraction that takes the attention away from the real issue. So fiscal cliff, 2nd amendment (although issues we must address) whats the issues we don't know about?
 
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