The Attack on the 2nd Amendment Continues

ATN_Pilot said:
Yep, I thought they had learned their lesson. About 14 years without so much as a whimper about gun control. Then along comes a bunch of dead kids that they can take advantage of, and they go right back to pushing the one issue that's cost them more elections than anything else.
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It is Republicans that are also talking about gun control...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/18/gun-control-debate_n_2321552.html

I am telling you, they are going to increase taxes on gun and bullets as a 'solution' to this. Not saying it is right or wrong, but that is what the 'solution' Washington comes up with.
 
Seggy said:
Finally....I AM NOT SERIOUS AT ALL concerning my post about my 'plan'. You can call it trolling, that is fine, but y'all need to relax the butt muscles, stop pretending to be scholars, and get off some soapboxes.
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Yes, I do call it trolling.

In ALL seriousness, take a look at Daniel Patrick Moynihan's (BTW, he was probably one of the smartest politicians EVER) plan on how to reduce violence. It would be a HEAVY tax on bullets, but not the ones used for hunting or target practice. Here is an article from August that touches on the plan...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/10/nyregion/taxing-bullets-as-de-facto-gun-control.html


Is it perfect? No. Is the current system perfect? No. However, I do think that the solution Biden (him and Mounihan served a couple of decades together in the Senate) comes to is centered around heavier taxes on bullets and guns. Take a look at what the government did to the tobacco companies. Are cigarettes banned? Nope, but if you want to smoke, you pay heavily for it. The tobacco companies didn't win the fight against the government with increased taxes and had probably similar financial interests as the gun lobby and gun companies have. Also, the Republicans can say that 'they won the fight and no gun bans were put in place', as they are voting themselves raises with the higher tax revenue they collect.
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I can't believe you would actually support such nonsense. Don't you realize that cigarette taxes are nothing but a poor tax? There is no tax more regressive than a tax targeted at a certain behavior or consumer product. As a liberal, you should support progressive taxation, which requires taxes to be pretty much centered around income only, as that's the only way to use marginal rates that increase the burden on those making the most. With cigarette taxes, lottery taxes, bullet taxes, alcohol taxes, and every other targeted tax, the tax burden is highest on those who make the least. You didn't stop poor people from smoking. You just made them poorer by forcing them to spend their meager income on taxes rather than forcing the wealthy to shoulder the tax burden.
 
Seggy said:
I remember you also saying at one point that it was 'doubtful' Airtran would merge with Southwest and it would most likely be Alaska...

:)
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You're only partially right. I did say it was doubtful that SWA would merge with us (and the problems they're having prove that I was right about my concerns with the difficulties they would have), but I never said that a merger with Alaska was likely. Delta has dibs on Alaska. I always wanted a merger with Alaska. But I never expected it.
 
Seggy said:
It is Republicans that are also talking about gun control...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/18/gun-control-debate_n_2321552.html

I am telling you, they are going to increase taxes on gun and bullets as a 'solution' to this. Not saying it is right or wrong, but that is what the 'solution' Washington comes up with.
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Even that won't do anything, assuming they only tax the bullets talked about in the article. The 5.56/.223 round used in the AR15 are both excellent hunting(small game) and target practice rounds. The 7.62x51/.308 is probably one of the most popular hunting rounds. It's also fired from the M14/M1A1. .30-06 is also popular and was used in all kinds of rifles during ww2.
I guess the point is, if the round is pretty good at killing medium to large game, it's also going to be pretty good at killing people.
Heck, Robert Kennedy was killed with a .22. That's damn near a varmint round as far as I'm concerned. Also wonderful for fun shooting because it's so small and cheap.
 
z987k, you're talking to someone who doesn't know the slightest thing about guns and ammo, but thinks himself qualified to prescribe policy for them. Don't waste your time with facts.
 
z987k said:
Even that won't do anything, assuming they only tax the bullets talked about in the article. The 5.56/.223 round used in the AR15 are both excellent hunting(small game) and target practice rounds. The 7.62x51/.308 is probably one of the most popular hunting rounds. It's also fired from the M14/M1A1. .30-06 is also popular and was used in all kinds of rifles during ww2.
I guess the point is, if the round is pretty good at killing medium to large game, it's also going to be pretty good at killing people.
Heck, Robert Kennedy was killed with a .22. That's damn near a varmint round as far as I'm concerned. Also wonderful for fun shooting because it's so small and cheap.
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Not saying it would do anything, but it may. For example, you can only buy the 'tax free' bullets at a gun range and use them there for target practice. I am sure the gun ranges would LOVE that. So there would be ways to get this through to get the gun lobby to get split up over this.

Also, it would be 'feel good', for the DC Beltway folks.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
z987k, you're talking to someone who doesn't know the slightest thing about guns and ammo, but thinks himself qualified to prescribe policy for them. Don't waste your time with facts.
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Are you saying Daniel Patrick Moynihan was not?
 
Seggy said:
Not saying it would do anything, but it may. For example, you can only buy the 'tax free' bullets at a gun range and use them there for target practice. I am sure the gun ranges would LOVE that. So there would be ways to get this through to get the gun lobby to get split up over this.

Also, it would be 'feel good', for the DC Beltway folks.
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See that'd still piss me off because I don't go to a gun range to sight in my gun. No reason to pay money for something I can do for free.
 
z987k said:
See that'd still piss me off because I don't go to a gun range to sight in my gun. No reason to pay money for something I can do for free.
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But I think it's a pretty sensible prognostication, unfortunately. The last ~30 years is littered with examples of Government mandating that people give money to supposedly private concerns. It's a win/win for the Government. Some of that money goes back to them so they can be reelected and pass more wealth transfer legislation, and if anything goes wrong, they can point the finger at Industry, who will get a slap on the wrist and most likely MORE "helpful" legislation to make their "services" mandatory. It's basically a confidence scheme, writ large. And it is essentially risk-free and HIGHLY profitable for everyone but the poor suckers paying the bills. Expect a lot more as our "Republic" unravels.
 
z987k said:
See that'd still piss me off because I don't go to a gun range to sight in my gun. No reason to pay money for something I can do for free.
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Oh I understand, but if that is proposed, the 'Gun Range Association of America' (or whatever it is) would quickly forget the other gun lobbys and push to get that provision in there.
 
Boris Badenov said:
But I think it's a pretty sensible prognostication, unfortunately. The last ~30 years is littered with examples of Government mandating that people give money to supposedly private concerns. It's a win/win for the Government. Some of that money goes back to them so they can be reelected and pass more wealth transfer legislation, and if anything goes wrong, they can point the finger at Industry, who will get a slap on the wrist and most likely MORE "helpful" legislation to make their "services" mandatory. It's basically a confidence scheme, writ large. And it is essentially risk-free and HIGHLY profitable for everyone but the poor suckers paying the bills. Expect a lot more as our "Republic" unravels.
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See the thing is, and I know I'm not alone here, when I see stupid laws I don't obey them. If they tax 20 rounds $1k, then I'm just going to circumvent the law.
 
z987k said:
See the thing is, and I know I'm not alone here, when I see stupid laws I don't obey them. If they tax 20 rounds $1k, then I'm just going to circumvent the law.
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Teh Gummint, while often about as effective as Abstienence Education, is remarkably good at making DAMNED sure that you give it the money that it's decided you owe.
 
How about the F.O.I.D. card?

All you have to do is pay your money, get another background check, and carry your card to own a gun or buy ammo.
 
Seggy said:
For example, you can only buy the 'tax free' bullets at a gun range and use them there for target practice.
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How would you control that? What's to stop someone from going to a gun range, buying your cheap, tax free ammo, and then taking it and shooting up another school, or mall or whatever public place you want? More regulation that still doesn't solve any problem. As I said a few pages back, I am in favor of certain increases in background checks, even though some disagree with that. A ban/tax on guns and ammo though I'm completely against.

ATN_Pilot said:
z987k, you're talking to someone who doesn't know the slightest thing about guns and ammo, but thinks himself qualified to prescribe policy for them. Don't waste your time with facts.
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Sounds like every politician we have that's working on gun control!
 
Mark815 said:
How would you control that? What's to stop someone from going to a gun range, buying your cheap, tax free ammo, and then taking it and shooting up another school, or mall or whatever public place you want? More regulation that still doesn't solve any problem.
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They would need to use the ammo right then and there at that gun range for one. They take it away, the gun range calls the police on the buyer.


Sounds like every politician we have that's working on gun control!
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The politicians do very little work, it is usually their staff, who is usually in their mid 20s right out of college writing legislation. ATN_Pilot should know better. :)
 
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