The Attack on the 2nd Amendment Continues

ppragman said:
Not up here, I can Concealed Carry anywhere I want (with a few exceptions) completely legally up here with no permit - I shouldn't need a permit to exercise a right.

That said, most people I know who would grow up with firearms.
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Hell, in Iowa, you take a class on a Saturday morning and wammo, here's your conceal and carry permit! THAT I don't agree with. I think you should know how to shoot, and shoot well before being allowed to carry in public. My Aunt, for example, is someone that should NOT EVER get to carry a gun in public. She'd react emotionally, with no accuracy, and cause more damage than the attack itself. If it didn't get taken away from her first.

The problem with conceal and carry in general is that many people rely on the threat of a gun, but aren't willing to use it. The weapon then gets turned on them. I know I'd hesitate except for the most dire situation, but I'm not wired to kill.
 
UAL747400 said:
Hell, in Iowa, you take a class on a Saturday morning and wammo, here's your conceal and carry permit! THAT I don't agree with. I think you should know how to shoot, and shoot well before being allowed to carry in public. My Aunt, for example, is someone that should NOT EVER get to carry a gun in public. She'd react emotionally, with no accuracy, and cause more damage than the attack itself. If it didn't get taken away from her first.

The problem with conceal and carry in general is that many people rely on the threat of a gun, but aren't willing to use it. The weapon then gets turned on them. I know I'd hesitate except for the most dire situation, but I'm not wired to kill.
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5 hours in MN. I met the instructor at his house. I was the only guy in the "class". Shot the breeze for a few hours, talking about guns. Went over the laws etc etc. Went to the range, not too far from his house. Shot some paper with the .22 he supplied. 25 shots. Needed 75% to land on the target. I passed with a score of 100. Permit in hand 2 weeks later. Valid for 5 years.
 
UAL747400 said:
Hell, in Iowa, you take a class on a Saturday morning and wammo, here's your conceal and carry permit! THAT I don't agree with. I think you should know how to shoot, and shoot well before being allowed to carry in public. My Aunt, for example, is someone that should NOT EVER get to carry a gun in public. She'd react emotionally, with no accuracy, and cause more damage than the attack itself. If it didn't get taken away from her first.

The problem with conceal and carry in general is that many people rely on the threat of a gun, but aren't willing to use it. The weapon then gets turned on them. I know I'd hesitate except for the most dire situation, but I'm not wired to kill.
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Why is it always the govt tasked with ensuring personal responsibility on the part of the individual? Me, I say let anyone buy a gun. It is after all a constitutionally protected right. From what we know of society, things will quiet down after a while. An armed society is a polite society, da?
 
[quote="UAL747400, post: 2033311, member: 679"I know I'd hesitate except for the most dire situation, but I'm not wired to kill.[/quote]
That's not a problem with CCW, that's something each individual must decide. Anyone who carries better have already decided various scenarios. Practice, practice, practice. Train, train, train. But at the end of the day the decision is yours (oh no, I hear Ted Stryker's CO.)

We're not wired to fly blind through clouds either but good training can overcome that.
 
A Life Aloft said:
Included in that 31,000 figure are however, police shootings, suicides, criminals shot in self defense, accidental shootings and murders of which the murder numbers were 10,225 and the suicide numbers in that figure above are 17, 772.

32,310 people died in auto accidents in 2011. There are roughly 260 million guns in private ownership, and 62 million vehicles registered in the United States. More than four times more guns than cars. More than 95% of the guns out there are never used against a person.
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You must have missed the point that I was trying to make. Allow me to try again.

Trying to make an argument that says, "ZOMG, LOOK OVER THERE! THERE ARE MORE DEATHS OVER THERE!" is fruitless. As an example, terrorism is a nuisance, and in fact only 3,000 Americans have died since 9/10/2001 on American soil due to terrorism, but look at what we've done.

Attempting to deflect the argument to another metric doesn't do the gun lobby much good.

But quite frankly NOTHING the gun lobby has done since the Newtown shootings has done much good.

But hey, I'm just a liberal that doesn't think more gun control laws will do much good. Basically, everybody disagrees with my position.
 
Several states allow CCW permits with absolutely no training or experience prior to issuance of the permit. My own state of Georgia is one of them. All I did was get finger printed and pay the fee, and I had my CCW come in the mail in a few weeks. So far, it's caused absolutely no problems. No accidental shootings, no negligent discharges, no dead kids, nothing. Just a state that allows freedom for its citizens.

Something no Founding Father ever said: "Well, obviously you should have to get a permit and prove that you can exercise a right responsibly before being allowed to exercise that right."

I think some people have a difficulty understanding the meaning of the word "right."
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Several states allow CCW permits with absolutely no training or experience prior to issuance of the permit. My own state of Georgia is one of them. All I did was get finger printed and pay the fee, and I had my CCW come in the mail in a few weeks. So far, it's caused absolutely no problems. No accidental shootings, no negligent discharges, no dead kids, nothing. Just a state that allows freedom for its citizens.

Something no Founding Father ever said: "Well, obviously you should have to get a permit and prove that you can exercise a right responsibly before being allowed to exercise that right."

I think some people have a difficulty understanding the meaning of the word "right."
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CO, gun safety course, finger prints about $130 in fees and I walked out with a CCW after 30 minutes.
 
Hacker15e said:
I can teach anyone with basic aeronautical experience to fly an F-15 safely in about 10 hours. What takes skill and training is using that aircraft as a weapon.
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Same with guns.

I'm not against ownership of guns. I'm against people being allowed to carry them in the grocery store without any kind of training.
 
UAL747400 said:
Same with guns.

I'm not against ownership of guns. I'm against people being allowed to carry them in the grocery store without any kind of training.
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Why? The facts are clear. There has been absolutely zero safety problem with it in the states that allow it.

Not to mention the, you know, Constitution.
 
UAL747400 said:
We're gonna agree to disagree.
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It's not something that reasonable people can disagree on. You're entitled to your own opinions, but not to your own facts. The fact is, there hasn't been a single accidental shooting from a CCW holder. Not one. Not a single innocent civilian caught in the crossfire from a CCW holder using his weapon. Not one. You can't argue with facts.

This is the problem with this "debate," much like the climate change debate. The people who don't want to accept reality just want to say things like "agree to disagree" or "statistics can be manipulated," or "figures lie." All complete copouts, simply because the facts don't support your preconceived notions.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
It's not something that reasonable people can disagree on. You're entitled to your own opinions, but not to your own facts. The fact is, there hasn't been a single accidental shooting from a CCW holder. Not one. Not a single innocent civilian caught in the crossfire from a CCW holder using his weapon. Not one. You can't argue with facts.

This is the problem with this "debate," much like the climate change debate. The people who don't want to accept reality just want to say things like "agree to disagree" or "statistics can be manipulated," or "figures lie." All complete copouts, simply because the facts don't support your preconceived notions.
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No, I just don't care. It's a serious weapon and I believe you should have training before carrying it in public.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
The fact is, there hasn't been a single accidental shooting from a CCW holder. Not one. Not a single innocent civilian caught in the crossfire from a CCW holder using his weapon. Not one. You can't argue with facts.
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Hmm, that does not mesh with the examples of accidental CCW shootings being discussed in the CCW class. I also just googled CCW and accidental shooting and plenty come up. Not to mention several example I can think of in my home state in recent years.

I am not arguing against CCW, but the record is not perfect.
 
UAL747400 said:
No, I just don't care. It's a serious weapon and I believe you should have training before carrying it in public.
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Guns aren't weapons.


That was sarcasm btw...


I haven't argued owning weapons in this thread. I haven't argued against the 2nd amendment. I've argued against certain people owning weapons. I didn't even need to be fingerprinted here in NH. In fact all I do is pay $10, go to the police station and pick up my CCW. It's literally that easy. If I don't want a CCW, then I just skip all that and go to the store, show my drivers license and buy a gun anyways and just open carry.

As someone who follows the law and has never had anything more than a speeding ticket on record, I'm very pleased that I can exercise my rights so easily here. I just fear that those who are mentally unstable can also exercise those rights just as easily, which can then lead to problems.
 
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