///AMG
Well-Known Member
I don’t disagree with your take, but can we also say that the world isn’t a zero sum game in the same breath?
Thank you SOOOOOOOOOOOOO much Delta Airlines Pilot!
- Thread starter Seggy
- Start date
I don’t disagree with your take, but can we also say that the world isn’t a zero sum game in the same breath?
Wardogg
Meat Popsicle
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
With seniority based bidding of pretty much everything, it certainly is.
IIRC if you’re catching diabetes on an FAA medical you’re pretty late to the party. I still get regular blood work done every year outside of my medical to try to catch anything funky or weird trends outside of a medical. I want to fly, but…. I also don’t want to die of something I could have caught but was afraid to look for because I was worried about working.
Wardogg
Meat Popsicle
Not everyone can just "stop working."
ChasenSFO
hen teaser
I get age 67 from every perspective except for pilots. Even my friends who finally go to 121 carriers in their 40s for the first time are all against it and do not want to fly until they're 67. Making that much more than the average American when flying for a legacy carrier, or even an LCC long term, it is kind of hard for me to wrap my head around enough pilots demanding they need to keep working another 2 years (beyond the 5-year extension they already got) for "financial reasons". And I'm saying this as a guy who is horrible with money and never has any for long lol. Is it really THAT big of a group of guys who have all that divorce\child support stuff to fund in their 60s or is it just a very vocal minuscule group? The age 55 retirement in ATC was very appealing to me. Waking up in Des Moines at 430AM at 66 years old for a 4-leg day? Eww.
Between the idle time in hotels, the ability to save\invest money, and possessing the drive to succeed that it took every pilot to get where they are, I think that any pilot who applies themselves can easily have a lucrative side hustle to help them retire at an age they find acceptable if they put their minds to it.
Richman
JC’s Resident Curmudgeon
So, outside of the people who've got themselves overextended, or had a bad marriage or five, I think the issue with some is that "I never knew how broke I was until I started making a little money". Sure, people make some coin in this job, and you can make a very comfortable living and retirement, but very rarely does it turn into any kind of serious generational wealth unless they have the moxie to go out and kill it some other way. To do that, 9/10 you have to be working for yourself, even if your goal is to just cash out at the first opportunity. There's one guy that I knew who's nickname was the "Ten Million Dollar Man", because he'd start a company, spool it enough to get it off the starter, and then sell out for $10 million. That was his number, and he did that multiple times. Good for him.
Even those folks who go to the dark side and work for management rarely make enough to get into the wealth category.
So what happens is guys and gals make serious coin, they move in to a nice neighborhood and start hanging around with people who DO make or have serious, serious money, and those folks are able to ignore work, stroke checks without thinking about it and pass on a eff-ton of coin to their kids and generally have a lot of eff you money. So there is some jelly there for sure, and for some it drives them nuts. The trap is, though, that you will never be able to make that kind of coin at this job (or anything that is called a job) no matter how long you work. To get there is just an order of magnitude (or more), and all you're going to do is kill yourself trying. People really get wrapped up into that, and it's just never going to click for them. Once they stop working though, now they're living off their retirement funds, and what little keeping up with the Bentlys they were doing comes to a screeching halt.
Living in SoFL, I've seen all kinds of money, and I know enough that there are simple economic limits to how things work. Humping a job, even for well into the six figures, is a path to a nice life and stable retirement, but you'll still be pissed when you have to stroke the check for the kid's school or to get your BMW fixed. To get to where you don't care takes WAY more than you'll ever be able to make in this job, and I think that makes some people nuts.
FWIW, I was at the hospital one day bringing my SigOth some dinner. There was a nice old lady there with her little dog. My SO was giving her the estimate, which was well, well into the four digits, actually closer to five. The nice old lady asked "is that a lot?", and about then the lady's....well, "handler" seems to be a bit harsh sounding, so I'll just say assistant, comes through the door. Takes the estimate, hands over the Amex Black Card and that was the end of that conversation. Turns out the lady was part of one of the generational wealth families that is pretty common in this area and she honestly had no idea how much money was worth. She was very nice, polite, and well spoken though.
Even those folks who go to the dark side and work for management rarely make enough to get into the wealth category.
So what happens is guys and gals make serious coin, they move in to a nice neighborhood and start hanging around with people who DO make or have serious, serious money, and those folks are able to ignore work, stroke checks without thinking about it and pass on a eff-ton of coin to their kids and generally have a lot of eff you money. So there is some jelly there for sure, and for some it drives them nuts. The trap is, though, that you will never be able to make that kind of coin at this job (or anything that is called a job) no matter how long you work. To get there is just an order of magnitude (or more), and all you're going to do is kill yourself trying. People really get wrapped up into that, and it's just never going to click for them. Once they stop working though, now they're living off their retirement funds, and what little keeping up with the Bentlys they were doing comes to a screeching halt.
Living in SoFL, I've seen all kinds of money, and I know enough that there are simple economic limits to how things work. Humping a job, even for well into the six figures, is a path to a nice life and stable retirement, but you'll still be pissed when you have to stroke the check for the kid's school or to get your BMW fixed. To get to where you don't care takes WAY more than you'll ever be able to make in this job, and I think that makes some people nuts.
FWIW, I was at the hospital one day bringing my SigOth some dinner. There was a nice old lady there with her little dog. My SO was giving her the estimate, which was well, well into the four digits, actually closer to five. The nice old lady asked "is that a lot?", and about then the lady's....well, "handler" seems to be a bit harsh sounding, so I'll just say assistant, comes through the door. Takes the estimate, hands over the Amex Black Card and that was the end of that conversation. Turns out the lady was part of one of the generational wealth families that is pretty common in this area and she honestly had no idea how much money was worth. She was very nice, polite, and well spoken though.
Karnage
I-am-a-pirate. I do not need credentials!
I like to joke that the guys really pushing for 67 are the ones with four ex-wives, six mortgages, and two boats that want 67 to keep writing checks but in my experience it’s not them. The ones I meet who seem to want it the most are the guys who have zero identity beyond the fact they are an airline captain who flew single seat fighters 30 years ago. They already pack their schedule with more premium pay a month than the average American makes in a year and are gone from home 20+ days a month. They need 67 because if they aren’t an airline pilot they are nothing. They don’t need the money, they just have nothing to do if they go home.
killbilly
Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
I flew with a CA last week who is all for age 67. His simple basis was that "if you're healthy enough to work, the government shouldn't be able to keep you from working."
So I asked a follow up, "So would you be good with cognitive testing and perhaps an overhaul to the medical issuance system that tested for real health and capability?"
"Absolutely I would be in favor of that."
The guy's honest. I suspect there are more out there like him.
Yessir.
I was the only guy under 60 on my last Asia trip and it was hilarious: "Once they extend it, I'm going to spend my last two years on medical leave"
Where's the wire, man?! WHERE'D YOU PUT THE WIRE ON ME?! This was absolutely the dinner conversation a few weeks ago.
I just sat there cursing myself for not going 'solo' and thought it would be good for me to start being more social.
I’ve only been in this business 7 years but I can really only recall two times where being social on a layover was actually worth it. And one was with one of our very own monkey lovers.
Bob Ridpath
Pit Bull love
I still get occasional offers to "come back" part-time. I mean, for me, it's like "Hell NO, what part of "retired" don't you get." Not gonna' take hours from someone else, whether they be a part-timer or someone full-time who might have gotten the OT.
I was done and said "good- bye. I meant "good-bye."
Sometimes you just have to accept the time has come and move on to enjoy what is next.
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Skåning
Well-Known Member
CLICK HERE TO SEE THIS ONE SIMPLE TRICK
///AMG
Well-Known Member
I think the reason that the term "generational wealth" (or just the shift to describing all money matters in terms of "wealth") is so en vogue right now, is because of the type of jealousy you describe. It got roped into the social justice discussion, 2020, et al. But the loudest voices are the furthest from ever being able to attain such a thing. As for the ability for a career airline pilot to acquire such money, I guess it probably depends on what your interpretation of "generational wealth" is. Personally, I'd be pretty happy with a comfortable retirement and no reduction in QOL. I haven't had billions passed along to me via inheritance, and I don't presume I will do this for my kids. That being said, I know a guy who would like to stick around for this because he wants to make good on his promise to 100% pay for his kid's undergrad and MD. He'll get there either way, but he gets to enjoy the F U money sooner if he can work a couple years longer. I'm sure there are plenty like him. He was one of the folks who got lost on furlough post 9/11 in the lost decade, now a senior 330 CA. I'm certainly in the minority here in saying I don't really care either way. The argument that folks at the top stand to make more than the guys at the bottom assumes either 1) the guys at the bottom won't work those extra couple years themselves (I wouldn't want to), or 2) there is some sort of future reduction in TOS pay (not unprecedented).
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
If he's a senior 330CA he's banking at least 450k a year pre tax. If he's working his ass (you can totally say ass here!) it's probably closer to the 550k mark. What kind of living expenses are we talking about that you can't put away the extra cheese required to send your kid to med school in 5 years?
roundout
VNAV monitor
I mean there are boats to buy and women to give half your • to….
Skåning
Well-Known Member
Pilots are the dumbest smart people.
Indeed.
Some of us are the 'can openers' of the professional world.
We can certainly open that can of Pork N'Beenz with speed and precision but when it comes to most everything else, well, good luck with that!
