TEB crash 5/15/17

[NovemberEcho]

Those are a lot of reason not to fly this circling visual. If this sucks so much, why do people do it? Rw1 is 1000 ft longer than Rw6 (Rw6 is 6000 ft). How often do pilots just land straight in?

You will NEVER land straight in to 1 while IFR. EWR is just too close. Any time the winds are from the northish* and EWR is landing 4 TEB will be the ILS circle 1.

*and too strong for a straight in 6

 

[Crockrocket94]

We have all flown it it seems, Its a sad situation, and just enhances our need for alertness and procedure. Sad news, as our plane was number one for departure when this happened. The pilot said the noise made over the radio prior to impact was an eerie feeling. You can't hear it in the LiveATC recording either.

 

[CFI A&P]

Those are a lot of reason not to fly this circling visual. If this sucks so much, why do people do it? Rw1 is 1000 ft longer than Rw6 (Rw6 is 6000 ft). How often do pilots just land straight in?

ILS 6 circle 1 is the only way I've landed on 1. November Echo Echo Echo would have a better explanation but as I understand it, EWR is too close for an approach from the south.

The circle is not in there because of the extra 1,000'. It is utilized for the other usual reasons; maximize volume and offer another approach when winds are pushing or exceeding aircraft limitations. ILS 19 circle 24 is also popular there.


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[NovemberEcho]

Just look at NY sectional and draw out the extended centerlines for EWR 4 and TEB 1/19 and you'll see why there is no straight in to 1. You'll also see why you need to be at 1500' at DANDY and why you turn to a 060 off of EWR

 

[Boris Badenov]

I hope you'll all forgive me a bit of grim amusement at the fact that the "miraculous" lack if injuries on the ground was due to the fact that they crashed in to the city administration building and everyone had already gone home. At 330. On a Monday.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

I hope you'll all forgive me a bit of grim amusement at the fact that the "miraculous" lack if injuries on the ground was due to the fact that they crashed in to the city administration building and everyone had already gone home. At 330. On a Monday.

I'm not lazy, I'm an efficiency expert.

 

[cmac88]

I hope you'll all forgive me a bit of grim amusement at the fact that the "miraculous" lack if injuries on the ground was due to the fact that they crashed in to the city administration building and everyone had already gone home. At 330. On a Monday.

I mean I guess they work 7-3?

 

[NovemberEcho]

I hope you'll all forgive me a bit of grim amusement at the fact that the "miraculous" lack if injuries on the ground was due to the fact that they crashed in to the city administration building and everyone had already gone home. At 330. On a Monday.

It was the Department of Public Works, and I believe it was some warehouses. You won't normally find people at the DPW during the day anyway cause they're at job sites. And I'm often at home before 3pm after putting in a full 8 hour shift.

 

[Itchy]

That picture sucks.

It is my hope that any friends and loved ones never see that. I will never forget the news footage of a crew brining a bodybag of a friend off a mountain.

 

[FlyingAccountant]

That's a pretty powerful picture. Rarely do you bear witness to the exact second that a crew met their demise.

The video of the SR22 in Houston from about a year ago still gives me the creeps.

 

[Bear]

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N452DA/history/20170515/1830Z/KPHL/KTEB/tracklog

 

[NovemberEcho]

I just watched the radar recording. I'm going to say the winds were a minor factor if any. i don't want to go into detail on here though.

 

[bp]

I'm too tired to type up my experience with that approach but Eddie does a good job here: http://code7700.com/kteb.htm

Scroll about halfway down to the arrivals area and "circling" and you'll see the section about arriving to runway 1. Somewhere(maybe click the picture) is a video of him flying the approach as it's typically done. He's updated the website so things are a little different than last time I was on there.

Direct link for those interested

http://code7700.com/videos/kteb_ils_06_circle_01.mp4

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[Kingairer]

Direct link for those interested

http://code7700.com/videos/kteb_ils_06_circle_01.mp4

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Thanks. Fairly benign, but having some sort of charted visual would seem to be appropriate. If you weren't familiar with it and doing it for the first time its easy to see you could get behind the airplane. Anyone know how close to the airport, or where in this video, the plane would've gone down?

 

[phill1174]

I just watched the radar recording. I'm going to say the winds were a minor factor if any. i don't want to go into detail on here though.

It'll definitely be interesting to see the cause when the investigation is done.

 

[sweeps]

Thanks. Fairly benign, but having some sort of charted visual would seem to be appropriate. If you weren't familiar with it and doing it for the first time its easy to see you could get behind the airplane. Anyone know how close to the airport, or where in this video, the plane would've gone down?

Somewhere around the 6:10 mark I believe. It doesn't seem so bad watching that video but if you factor a late turn and lots of bumps plus the wind shear potential it can be a handful. Also being worried about all the towers out there and the myth that you can't overfly Giants stadium just adds another couple of layers that make it interesting. Not my favorite approach ever. I much prefer the ILS 19 circle 24 going in there.

 

[bp]

Thanks. Fairly benign, but having some sort of charted visual would seem to be appropriate. If you weren't familiar with it and doing it for the first time its easy to see you could get behind the airplane. Anyone know how close to the airport, or where in this video, the plane would've gone down?

Here's one of the businesses that caught fire after the crash, per the article

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[trafficinsight]

"a handful"

That's code for "completely unsafe." Right?

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[JeppUpdater]

Every time I'm at school I ask for real world circles but instead we get Kjfk or kmem, places we'll obviously never get a circle but the graphics look pretty and apparently that's what the federales care about.

Courtesy the FAA. Pretty much every other regulatory body in the world will let you do anything at a modeled airport, but not our beloved FAA. The Canadians and EASA in particular actually frequently just randomly select an airport for checking that's different from anything trained in order to actually make their guys think.

Do that in the States enough and you'd have a pilot bust and complain to his union it wasn't fair because he hadn't done the exact same thing four times in the right conditions at a certain configuration with thorough briefing ahead of time. Already seen it happen with a random Anchorage checkride. Aviating is apparently scary.

 

[NovemberEcho]

From what I saw, neither the wind/wx nor the usual hazards with the 6 circle 1 played a role in this.