Taking ATP Checkride in a 1979 Cessna 414A?

[MaRiO FDZ]

Hello people.

I have finally met the requirements for the ATP checkride both FAA written exam and hours. I took and passed the examn in July last year. However, I have this doubt lingering in my head. I fly a Cessna 414A for a living, and wonder if it is practical to take the checkride in it. I have some doubts about it, particularly the engine in flight restart, I know those RAMs don't like temperature changes and I am concerned about that. Also I figure there have to be other things I must know before I take the checkride, so would hooking up with a CFI for the checkride be enough? or would it be better just take an ATP course and take the Checkride there?

I am interested more in 135 operations than 121. Thank you very much in advance!

Take Care

 

[mogley68]

I really don't see an issue with taking the ride in a 414.

In my opinion if you are worried about the engine restarting or in your ability to restart an engine on a plane you fly for a living it may not be a good idea to be flying the airplane.

That being said, I have taken several 135 rides in several 414a with every form of ram conversion and have never had an issue with a restart. Just talk to your examiner about doing it gently so you are not abusing it or causing unnecessary wear.

 

[Finny]

I really don't see an issue with taking the ride in a 414.

In my opinion if you are worried about the engine restarting or in your ability to restart an engine on a plane you fly for a living it may not be a good idea to be flying the airplane.

That being said, I have taken several 135 rides in several 414a with every form of ram conversion and have never had an issue with a restart. Just talk to your examiner about doing it gently so you are not abusing it or causing unnecessary wear.

I read it as his concern for the wear and tear on the engine and not his ability to restart the engine in the air. No need to take cheap shots when someone is asking for help.

 

[mogley68]

My response was in no way meant as a cheap shot.

 

[mshunter]

Take it. You'll be glad you did. I didn't have to shut one down on my ride.

 

[MaRiO FDZ]

I really don't see an issue with taking the ride in a 414.

In my opinion if you are worried about the engine restarting or in your ability to restart an engine on a plane you fly for a living it may not be a good idea to be flying the airplane.

That being said, I have taken several 135 rides in several 414a with every form of ram conversion and have never had an issue with a restart. Just talk to your examiner about doing it gently so you are not abusing it or causing unnecessary wear.

Thank y'all for your comments. My worries is that an air restart can damage the already iffy and delicate RAM 7s. In other words, I would hate it to tell my boss "thanks for the ride. Now the plane is down on maitenance because of it". But if it were for me, I'd take it in he plane. I have 650 hours in it, I'd rather not have to re-learn all the specs and speeds for, say a Seminole.

That being said, would it be better I hook up with a CFI to get some prep??

Thanks again

 

[A300Capt]

If the boss is allowing you to take the test in the airplane you normally fly and most comfortable in......take advantage of the situation! It's really a no brainer. What am I missing?

 

[ctab5060X]

I took my ATP in an airplane where I had ~800 in type and ~50 in the particular airplane I would use for the check ride.

Easiest check ride I ever took (outside of AQP )

 

[chrisreedrules]

That being said, would it be better I hook up with a CFI to get some prep??

Yes, you absolutely should. Go find a CFI who would be willing to do some ground with you to help prepare you for the oral, and make sure that he/she has signed off other ATP students before and that they know the examiner's gouge. Also, make sure you find an examiner who will do the Checkride in the 414. I signed off a couple ATP students but the Checkride was always literally straight out of the PTS (as it should be) and there were no surprises. 4 approaches. 2 precision, 2 non-precision, 2 will be single engine. One will be a no-flap landing. You will have to do steep turns and stalls. Expect a rejected takeoff and an engine failure in the air so he can see you work through the problem. Tolerances are mostly +50/-0 on altitudes and speeds. That's the gist of it anyway. Good luck.

 

[mogley68]

Thank y'all for your comments. My worries is that an air restart can damage the already iffy and delicate RAM 7s. In other words, I would hate it to tell my boss "thanks for the ride. Now the plane is down on maitenance because of it". But if it were for me, I'd take it in he plane. I have 650 hours in it, I'd rather not have to re-learn all the specs and speeds for, say a Seminole.

That being said, would it be better I hook up with a CFI to get some prep??

Thanks again

I really wouldn't worry about the engine. I took my ATP in a P Baron and just explained to the examiner the expectation of the owner to be gentle during the shutdown/restart and he was totally fine with it. Remember the PTS doesn't say it has to be shutdown for any given period or time or to be performed as a simulated failure in concurrence with any other maneuver. Just take your time, let it slowly cool, shutdown, checklist, restart.

I think the hardest part will be finding a DPE that can do the ride in a 414. It is a really easy ride. The only downside to using a 414 is that there are more systems to know than your typical multi trainer.

 

[fholbert]

The only downside to using a 414 is that there are more systems to know than your typical multi trainer.

If you want simple systems get one of these for your ATP check ride! Fixed gear, no hydro's to learn. Heck, the props don't even feather. Anything say it has to be a complex twin?

Adding oil must be a bitch.

 

[mogley68]

Mario, where are you based?

 

[MaRiO FDZ]

If the boss is allowing you to take the test in the airplane you normally fly and most comfortable in......take advantage of the situation! It's really a no brainer. What am I missing?

Precisely what I'd love to do. I just wanted to make sure there wouldn't be any drawbacks before I ask him.

Yes, you absolutely should. Go find a CFI who would be willing to do some ground with you to help prepare you for the oral, and make sure that he/she has signed off other ATP students before and that they know the examiner's gouge. Also, make sure you find an examiner who will do the Checkride in the 414. I signed off a couple ATP students but the Checkride was always literally straight out of the PTS (as it should be) and there were no surprises. 4 approaches. 2 precision, 2 non-precision, 2 will be single engine. One will be a no-flap landing. You will have to do steep turns and stalls. Expect a rejected takeoff and an engine failure in the air so he can see you work through the problem. Tolerances are mostly +50/-0 on altitudes and speeds. That's the gist of it anyway. Good luck.

Thank you VERY much for that one. I most definetly will. I started reading the PTS already.

I really wouldn't worry about the engine. I took my ATP in a P Baron and just explained to the examiner the expectation of the owner to be gentle during the shutdown/restart and he was totally fine with it. Remember the PTS doesn't say it has to be shutdown for any given period or time or to be performed as a simulated failure in concurrence with any other maneuver. Just take your time, let it slowly cool, shutdown, checklist, restart.

Thanks, will have that in mind. Hopefully everything will be ok.

I think the hardest part will be finding a DPE that can do the ride in a 414. It is a really easy ride. The only downside to using a 414 is that there are more systems to know than your typical multi trainer.

Hadn't thought of that, though. I'll ask about local examiners see if they feel like it. On the systems part, Thankfully my boss sent me to Flight Safety for the initial on this thing back when I first started flying it, so even systems I'm pretty confident. Thanks again!!

Thanks again to y'all
Take Care

 

[MaRiO FDZ]

Mario, where are you based?

Hi,
MMAN, but 95% of my flights are to the Rio Grande Valley, Houston or San Antonio, TX
Thanks again
Take Care

 

[Dan208B]

I took a commercial multi checkride in an airplane with large continental engines like those. I mentioned my concerns ahead of time to the examiner and we worked it out. The inflight shutdown and restart doesn't have to occur unexpectedly. You may get the engines as cool as possible first. We stage cooled to 20 inches and then further cooled that engine to 16 inches and then finally shut it down and had the checklist ready for the restart. The examiner watched the CHT and said it didn't drop too much. I think it's all very possible. However I would not take the checkride without having done the inflight restart once ahead of time so the start procedure is not a surprise and you're certain it starts easy as the checklist directs. I was very concerned about all this but it worked out well and I recommend taking the ride in the airplane you are familiar with.

Also DPEs can't just do it. It will have to be one that has 414 experience or has done checkrides in them. You may have to search a bit.

 

[mshunter]

Yes, you absolutely should. Go find a CFI who would be willing to do some ground with you to help prepare you for the oral, and make sure that he/she has signed off other ATP students before and that they know the examiner's gouge. Also, make sure you find an examiner who will do the Checkride in the 414. I signed off a couple ATP students but the Checkride was always literally straight out of the PTS (as it should be) and there were no surprises. 4 approaches. 2 precision, 2 non-precision, 2 will be single engine. One will be a no-flap landing. You will have to do steep turns and stalls. Expect a rejected takeoff and an engine failure in the air so he can see you work through the problem. Tolerances are mostly +50/-0 on altitudes and speeds. That's the gist of it anyway. Good luck.

What sign off are you talking about? AFAIK, there is no endorsement needed unless you bust the ride.

 

[MaRiO FDZ]

What sign off are you talking about? AFAIK, there is no endorsement needed unless you bust the ride.

Not asking about a sign off, rather a heads up or some guidance beforehand. Practical benefit, more than legal requirement.
Thanks again
Take Care

 

[Fly_Unity]

I did my ATP in the Twin Cessna (we also have the Ram 7) with the FAA in conjunction with a 135 ride. Literally shut it down, waited 5 seconds and started it back up. It was a non event.

Turbines are easier to deal with for intentional shutdowns though. This was my first Garret shutdown!

 

[Baronpilot244]

No endorsement needed to take the ride first time around - if you bust you have to get trained and then a signoff from a CFI.
I would give Jimmy Garland a call at SandS aviation in Georgia. He maintains twin cessnas and also offers recurrent and check out training in these birds. He would be a valuable resource in addressing your concerns, he may also know of a good dpe that understands the needs of the TSIO-520!
www.ssaviation.us
Good luck!

Bp244

 

[chrisreedrules]

What sign off are you talking about? AFAIK, there is no endorsement needed unless you bust the ride.

You right you right...