Student loans could help avert U.S. airline pilot shortage: union head

derg

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Availability of capital is one thing, but overall training costs (fuel is tres cher) are another problem.

If they really want to solve the issue, free up some capital, give tax incentives on aviation fuel, reform the legal system in terms of GA and the elephant in the room is that it makes no sense to take out $80K in borrowed money to arrive at a job that doesn't pay a livable, ADULT, wage until many years into the profession.

My opinion only.






By Jeffrey Dastin


WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The head of the world's largest pilots union urged the airline industry on Monday to find ways to alleviate the rising costs of aviators' schooling, saying a shortage of regional airline pilots looms in the United States.

The expensive education required to become a pilot, coupled with the low wages and benefits of entry-level jobs, is deterring the next generation of pilots from entering the profession, Tim Canoll, president of the Air Line Pilots Association, International (ALPA), said in an interview.

That could result in service cuts to small U.S. cities and hurt regional carriers where many commercial pilots get their start, such as Republic Airways Holdings Inc <RJET.O> and SkyWest Inc <SKYW.O>, which larger U.S. airlines contract to operate low-demand routes.

Republic said in July that a shortage of pilots and an ongoing labor dispute forced it to fly less than forecast, causing second-quarter income to fall 79 percent year-over-year. The company's share price has plunged.

Canoll said ALPA, which does not represent pilots at Republic, currently sees no shortage of available candidates for U.S. airlines including Republic. There were roughly two government-approved pilots for every aviator job in the United States in 2014, according to the union, which represents pilot groups at 31 U.S. and Canadian airlines.

But demand for pilots is expected to jump in the next decade as U.S. airlines add planes to their fleets and thousands of pilots retire. Hiring sprees by the likes of American Airlines Group Inc <AAL.O> and Delta Air Lines Inc <DAL.N> may mean regional carriers are hard-pressed to find new staff.

Canoll said corporate or government-backed loans could help students pay their way through flight school. He said large U.S. airlines could also promise pilots-in-training a job after they do a stint at one of the regional carriers.

Large U.S. airlines will have to pay the regional carriers more so those companies can offer competitive wages, he added. Otherwise, carriers such as American may have to take over the routes that regionals operate.

"We have to find a way to draw the picture for a young person" considering the pilot profession, Canoll said. "They’re just not going to do it for $22,000 a year," he said, referring to a current typical starting salary at a regional airline.

Informal talks on how to avert a shortage are under way among industry and government stakeholders, and a formal group may be on the horizon, he said.



(Reporting by Jeffrey Dastin; Editing by Frances Kerry)
 
Did flight training become exempt from government backed loans? I had to use a couple to finish up mine are they not available anymore?
 
Not everyone goes through collegiate aviation.

The more affordable route is through an Mom & Pop FBO 61/141 academy. No Gov't backed loans, not even if your attending a community college aviation program in partnership with an external 141 program flightschool...

If funding was easy to come by it would not have take me 8-10 yrs to get to where I'm at now.
 
The industry (majors, regionals, FAA) have each created a noose for themselves. The tip of their toes on are the bucket.

It all began with the former American Airline CEO who many moons ago became FAA (or Civil Aviation Authority) Administrator..... You know, they guy who "Promulgated" the age 60 rule to in blatant collusion with is former cohorts at American in attempt to save them money in pension costs a-la-carte, via revolving door.
 
Things are worth more when you just print money right?

I don't suppose the union guys could, you know, allow 1st year guys to make a liveable wage could they?
 
The more affordable route is through an Mom & Pop FBO 61/141 academy
I would worry about accountability with some of these operations. Look what happened to all these people that put deposits at training centers and they closed shop and lost their money.

I think the better way is for the airlines to do their own training if they are keeping the pay this low.
 
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Against my explicit advice, a former student of mine took out loans in excess of $200k to pursue her dream of being a vet at a Caribbean vet school that charges quite a bit more because none of their students could get in anywhere else. Now she's on Facebook complaining about crippling student loans and what the government needs to do to forgive them.

Each day I get a bit closer to quitting the Internet.
 
If only there was a rule that allowed you to start right seat at say.....$125k less in flight hours....hmmmm
 
Against my explicit advice, a former student of mine took out loans in excess of $200k to pursue her dream of being a vet at a Caribbean vet school that charges quite a bit more because none of their students could get in anywhere else. Now she's on Facebook complaining about crippling student loans and what the government needs to do to forgive them.

Each day I get a bit closer to quitting the Internet.
A friend of mine, between her Stanford undergraduate education, and medical school, will repay approximately $750,000 in student loan principal and interest over the course of her lifetime. When she first told me that, I made her repeat it two or three times to make sure that I wasn't hallucinating. Nope, no joke.

"We'll see" what she generates with all of that.

Availability of capital is one thing, but overall training costs (fuel is tres cher) are another problem.

If they really want to solve the issue, free up some capital, give tax incentives on aviation fuel, reform the legal system in terms of GA and the elephant in the room is that it makes no sense to take out $80K in borrowed money to arrive at a job that doesn't pay a livable, ADULT, wage until many years into the profession.

My opinion only.
About that scope thing again...
 
A friend of mine, between her Stanford undergraduate education, and medical school, will repay approximately $750,000 in student loan principal and interest over the course of her lifetime. When she first told me that, I made her repeat it two or three times to make sure that I wasn't hallucinating. Nope, no joke.

If you play the game of higher education, you're capitulating to a broken system and contributing materially to the problem. You're putting self-interested pragmatism over wide-scale ideological rationality on the promise of possible individual long-term gains, and by doing so you're fostering the growth of abuse inherent (and easily observed) in such a system.

You're playing the lottery on borrowed money.

This is the axe corporatism holds over your neck. This is the reason that people capitulate to economic slavery. People dig holes that society instructs them to build, climb in, and keep digging, with the promise of eventual extrication. This allows the massive and increasing separation and segregation between strata in a classful society, and it fosters a pit of discontent.

You are giving your money to the rich, and the flow of money to the rich passes through a check valve.

Bernie 2016. ;p

-Fox
 
If you play the game of higher education, you're capitulating to a broken system and contributing materially to the problem. You're putting self-interested pragmatism over wide-scale ideological rationality on the promise of possible individual long-term gains, and by doing so you're fostering the growth of abuse inherent (and easily observed) in such a system.

You're playing the lottery on borrowed money.

This is the axe corporatism holds over your neck. This is the reason that people capitulate to economic slavery. People dig holes that society instructs them to build, climb in, and keep digging, with the promise of eventual extrication. This allows the massive and increasing separation and segregation between strata in a classful society, and it fosters a pit of discontent.

You are giving your money to the rich, and the flow of money to the rich passes through a check valve.

Bernie 2016. ;p

-Fox

Self-interested pragmatism? You mean like being able to get a job and feed your family? Ha!

Look, you come up with a better system for me to cull ten thousand job applications to a hundred people who can read, write, have some related jobs skills, and have demonstrated that they can accomplish something that requires commitment and dedication.

Because if I don't put that college degree box up there, ten thousand people will apply for a job telling me that they're skills in statistics and data analysis are "excellent".
 
A friend of mine, between her Stanford undergraduate education, and medical school, will repay approximately $750,000 in student loan principal and interest over the course of her lifetime. When she first told me that, I made her repeat it two or three times to make sure that I wasn't hallucinating. Nope, no joke.

"We'll see" what she generates with all of that.


About that scope thing again...

Well if she's anything like my doctor buddy, she'll likely join a practice that will include paying off (or towards) her med school loans as a part of the compensation package. Stanford educated doctor? I'll bet on that pony.

My student, on the other hand, was a good kid, but lazy as hell with a C-average who barely finished college. She should have taken it as a sign that no U.S. vet school would take her, but some people will chase their dreams right off a cliff. Only so much you can do for them.
 
Self-interested pragmatism? You mean like being able to get a job and feed your family? Ha!

Yes. What other behavior does that excuse? Crossing a picket line? Theft? Murder? Clearly legality doesn't define the line, so what does? Taking care of dependents is an ultimate rationalization, because it's an underlying trait of social creatures and an established natural law. To kill another and take their land and their dwellings and their agriculture to better provide for you and yours is an underlying theme that has recurred since the dawn of time. Do we continue to accept that as an ultimate rationalization as beings capable of rational examination of our circumstance?

-Fox
 
Not everyone goes through collegiate aviation.

The more affordable route is through an Mom & Pop FBO 61/141 academy. No Gov't backed loans, not even if your attending a community college aviation program in partnership with an external 141 program flightschool...

If funding was easy to come by it would not have take me 8-10 yrs to get to where I'm at now.
Not necessarily.
 
Well if she's anything like my doctor buddy, she'll likely join a practice that will include paying off (or towards) her med school loans as a part of the compensation package. Stanford educated doctor? I'll bet on that pony.

My student, on the other hand, was a good kid, but lazy as hell with a C-average who barely finished college. She should have taken it as a sign that no U.S. vet school would take her, but some people will chase their dreams right off a cliff. Only so much you can do for them.
Me too, but I still question (strongly) the idea of betting that much on anyone; your student's creditors deserve to take a bath.
 
Here's an idea : put an electric motor in those cezznas , who cares if it only has 2 hours of battery. I bet schools could charge $50 an hour and still be able to finance a training fleet. Costs are cut in half right there.

I call it 'the tessla 172'
 
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Me too, but I still question (strongly) the idea of betting that much on anyone; your student's creditors deserve to take a bath.
That's the brilliance of the whole system. There's absolutely no risk whatsoever! On an unsecured loan!
It's not gambling if you win 100% of the time.
 
Had an interesting conversation today with someone associated with pilot hiring. Some highlights:

1. The world will be out of certificated pilots by 2020. Not enough student starts to make up for retirements. Possibly alleviated by raising retirement age.

2. The regionals cannot hire enough pilots to make up for guys leaving and are asking the mainline carriers to quit hiring their pilots, but that's not going down too well.

3. Should be interviewing Tier 2 next year.
 
Had an interesting conversation today with someone associated with pilot hiring. Some highlights:

1. The world will be out of certificated pilots by 2020. Not enough student starts to make up for retirements. Possibly alleviated by raising retirement age.

2. The regionals cannot hire enough pilots to make up for guys leaving and are asking the mainline carriers to quit hiring their pilots, but that's not going down too well.

3. Should be interviewing Tier 2 next year.
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