Spirit March 24 Opening

For the Spirit folks,
I am quite intrigued about the overall optics of how things are because I have a good numbers of friends who are at Spirit in dispatch, pilots, flight attendants, a mechanic and one who worked at FPA and have echoed the following:
1) Ted Christie needs to go
2) Even with the get the money from PW, it’s still not going to stop the bleeding
3) The growth in routes has hurt them
4) Some workgroups are overstaffed - mostly pilots and FAs
5) Aside from getting the money from PW - there was no plan b if the merger filed
6) Group who are in contract talks, the company has no desire to get one done
7) Spirit needs to rethink it’s business plan and restructure to flying of 8-10 years ago
8) Bankruptcy needs to happen the latest Q3 2024.

Aside from the stated above, 3 of my friends still at NK then everything will be fine, despite the 16 quarters of not turning a profit and getting the payout from PW will help.

Anyone who has worked in the industry from 9-11 to 2012 knows that all the majors went through bankruptcy, American twice while losing some to merger and some didn’t make it.

Spirit won’t go away…
 
Hondo Calrissian said:
Anyone who has worked in the industry from 9-11 to 2012 knows that all the majors went through bankruptcy, American twice while losing some to merger and some didn’t make it.
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Continental did not go through bankruptcy (although they did get concessionary contracts from most of their unions at one point.)
 
Hondo Calrissian said:
For the Spirit folks,
I am quite intrigued about the overall optics of how things are because I have a good numbers of friends who are at Spirit in dispatch, pilots, flight attendants, a mechanic and one who worked at FPA and have echoed the following:
1) Ted Christie needs to go
2) Even with the get the money from PW, it’s still not going to stop the bleeding
3) The growth in routes has hurt them
4) Some workgroups are overstaffed - mostly pilots and FAs
5) Aside from getting the money from PW - there was no plan b if the merger filed
6) Group who are in contract talks, the company has no desire to get one done
7) Spirit needs to rethink it’s business plan and restructure to flying of 8-10 years ago
8) Bankruptcy needs to happen the latest Q3 2024.

Aside from the stated above, 3 of my friends still at NK then everything will be fine, despite the 16 quarters of not turning a profit and getting the payout from PW will help.

Anyone who has worked in the industry from 9-11 to 2012 knows that all the majors went through bankruptcy, American twice while losing some to merger and some didn’t make it.

Spirit won’t go away…
Click to expand...
1) Maybe, it will probably come down to how he navigates the current struggles in my opinion.
2) True, but they "have a plan to right size the airline and return to profitability".
3) Not really, it seems more like they haven't pivoted with the changing markets well enough. New routes are still being opened monthly, while others go away. Part of the "reorganize and right size the airline" thing. 6 routes returned or were opened in March, 11 routes will return or open in April, more in May and June. Some routes have become seasonal, and some routes carry less frequency.
4) Yes
5) They have been saying they planned for it to fail, but also defer to "we're a publicly traded airline, so we can't share all the details yet". Difficult to know what to believe there. In their defense we have seen a number of changes, they did the lease back to get some liquidity, they got the PW compensation, they are making many changes to the route network, and they have offered early retirement/early out/voluntary furlough, whatever you want to call it, to help with staffing, so maybe they have a plan?
6) Probably true. People want money, the airline has no money, it is a simple math problem, so I am not sure what anybody expects here. Frustrating for those in negotiations, for sure. Non-union employees and management did not get raises this year, so it isn't just those in contract negotiations who suffer from the current financial situation.
7) I don't know about the flying of 8-10 years ago, they have a growing presence on the west coast and don't want to get pigeonholed into one region like jetBlue, but they absolutely need to rethink the business plan.
8) I do not think bankruptcy is inevitable, but it is an option. I also think the media saying the airline is doomed is speculation, they don't know what plans the airline has or doesn't have. They see a big fat bill due in 2025 and are unsure how it will get dealt with, so they automatically arrive at "doomed" because negativity is always the better talking point that gets clicks.
 
flynryan692 said:
1) Maybe, it will probably come down to how he navigates the current struggles in my opinion.
2) True, but they "have a plan to right size the airline and return to profitability".
3) Not really, it seems more like they haven't pivoted with the changing markets well enough. New routes are still being opened monthly, while others go away. Part of the "reorganize and right size the airline" thing. 6 routes returned or were opened in March, 11 routes will return or open in April, more in May and June. Some routes have become seasonal, and some routes carry less frequency.
4) Yes
5) They have been saying they planned for it to fail, but also defer to "we're a publicly traded airline, so we can't share all the details yet". Difficult to know what to believe there. In their defense we have seen a number of changes, they did the lease back to get some liquidity, they got the PW compensation, they are making many changes to the route network, and they have offered early retirement/early out/voluntary furlough, whatever you want to call it, to help with staffing, so maybe they have a plan?
6) Probably true. People want money, the airline has no money, it is a simple math problem, so I am not sure what anybody expects here. Frustrating for those in negotiations, for sure. Non-union employees and management did not get raises this year, so it isn't just those in contract negotiations who suffer from the current financial situation.
7) I don't know about the flying of 8-10 years ago, they have a growing presence on the west coast and don't want to get pigeonholed into one region like jetBlue, but they absolutely need to rethink the business plan.
8) I do not think bankruptcy is inevitable, but it is an option. I also think the media saying the airline is doomed is speculation, they don't know what plans the airline has or doesn't have. They see a big fat bill due in 2025 and are unsure how it will get dealt with, so they automatically arrive at "doomed" because negativity is always the better talking point that gets clicks.
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Management and some non union groups did in fact get raises last year… the only people that didn’t are dispatch and contract personnel
 
osprey4441 said:
I would be pretty nervous moving to Florida for their upcoming new hire class.

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Pilot furloughs are not dispatch furloughs. Most of NK has been on a hiring freeze and/or voluntary leaves for months, and I'm sure OCC management had the same idea of a freeze, but the attrition in the OCC has been so high they have been forced to hire even for a reduced amount of planes.

That said, furloughs/involuntary leaves are never good to see for any group.
 
Deadhead122 said:
So word on the street is they are cutting lines again and a email from a certain CEO talking about layoffs in 2025 seems to point to possible layoffs for Spirit DXRs..
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Anything is possible but the Dx department here has such a high turnover rate that I doubt it. Keep in mind a few months back that we were hiring back when almost every other department wasn't and -- in the case of the pilots -- furloughing people.

Now the large reduction in flying will certainly affect us, but it will more than likely be in significantly less OT opportunities as the new bid for next year came out and there are far more relief lines than there are currently. Anything could happen obviously and it's good to have a Plan B in this industry, but I would genuinely be surprised if they start furloughing dispatchers, especially when we will probably lose a few more to United come January. If worse comes to worst they may do what they did during COVID and offer EVTO at 60% salary for a lot of the senior dispatchers.
 
IamNegan said:
To sum it all up, Spirit will not be the Spirit of today in the coming year, they will have to rebuild their whole business concept, return airplanes back to the lease-holders to having a fleet of 100 planes, and layoff 30-40% of their current workforce.
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A bit prophetic of you, sir. Are you Ted Christie by chance?
 
BigGuy4U said:
Anything is possible but the Dx department here has such a high turnover rate that I doubt it. Keep in mind a few months back that we were hiring back when almost every other department wasn't and -- in the case of the pilots -- furloughing people.

Now the large reduction in flying will certainly affect us, but it will more than likely be in significantly less OT opportunities as the new bid for next year came out and there are far more relief lines than there are currently. Anything could happen obviously and it's good to have a Plan B in this industry, but I would genuinely be surprised if they start furloughing dispatchers, especially when we will probably lose a few more to United come January. If worse comes to worst they may do what they did during COVID and offer EVTO at 60% salary for a lot of the senior dispatchers.
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That is true, but that hiring and first round of pilot furloughs was based only on the NEOs with engine issues being grounded. Add on to that now deliveries being deferred, 23 CEOs being sold and all the 319s being retired early, that starts to add up to a lot of planes.
 
BigGuy4U said:
If worse comes to worst they may do what they did during COVID and offer EVTO at 60% salary for a lot of the senior dispatchers.
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The days of airlines offering dispatchers paid leave are over.
The only reason for that was because the government was paying 100% of salaries with the condition of no furloughs during covid.
No airline in survival mode is going to pay any percentage of salaries when the option to furlough is present.
Like other airlines, they may offer unpaid leave, but no way they offer any sort of incentive lines for dispatch.
 
FXCO said:
The days of airlines offering dispatchers paid leave are over.
The only reason for that was because the government was paying 100% of salaries with the condition of no furloughs during covid.
No airline in survival mode is going to pay any percentage of salaries when the option to furlough is present.
Like other airlines, they may offer unpaid leave, but no way they offer any sort of incentive lines for dispatch.
Click to expand...

Yea 60% pay to not work is not gonna happen this time. More likely would be some sort of concession demand for furlough mitigation.
 
Spirit Airlines (SAVE) has filed for bankruptcy protection, it disclosed on Monday, after the pioneer of no-frills air travel in the US struggled with a long run of quarterly losses and significant debt.

To our fellow dispatchers at NKS hopefully you make it out the other side of this blue sky up, be it there (if NKS survives this thing) or at another airline.
 
From the Article

" KEY POINTS

Spirit Airlines CEO said customers can continue to book tickets on the airline.

Spirit has struggled since its failed acquisition by JetBlue Airways,

Pratt & Whitney engine recall and weaker-than-expected sales.

The company has faced mounting losses and has been against a deadline to renegotiate $1.1 billion in debt payments due next year. "

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/11/18/spirit-airlines-files-bankruptcy-protection.html
 
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