Southwest To Lower Minimums?

SpiceWeasel said:
I just talked to pro Stan recently to get on record (I didn't tell them who I flew with), that when I wasn't comfortable with what the guy was doing, he told me to "get over it". It was more of a venting session for me.

Of course, I had a bad feeling about his standardization when I mentioned that the checklist responses have changed (how long ago now, @PhilosopherPilot ?) and he said to that "yeah I know but I don't really care."

The guy you flew with, I'm pretty sure I flew with him. He tells everyone how much he makes within 5 minutes of meeting yet wears black sneakers.

He got huffy and puffy when I asked him to follow the checklist SOP as far as showing the logbook. "But you already saw it!" "yup but it says you will physically show me the book at this checklist item."

A common thing at our shop (surprising considering the St Maarten incident on video), is that most CAs I fly with don't understand the taxi-only portion of the runway surface is, only for taxi. Gotten some dirty looks, rolled eyes, and snark for my insistence on adherence on 9 in BOS and 18L in CLT.
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I'm no airline pilot, so I don't know if this is the right way to have handled it. But his attitude is horrible. At my current jobs de-escalation, and redirection are key. I think that might have first been a talk between the us two. And if the actions/attitude continued, time to pack up your bag.

SpiceWeasel said:
He tells everyone how much he makes within 5 minutes of meeting
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Refer to post #179 in this thread.

http://forums.jetcareers.com/threads/commutair.227085/page-9
 
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PhilosopherPilot said:
I've only come close to leaving a trip once, and it was with a very notorious captain. We had a come to Jesus in Montego Bay. I told him, "I can't make you use checklists, but you can't make me fly either. I'll be happy to stay in Jamaica tonight." The funny thing is that when I tell that story everyone knows who I'm talking about with no other information. Why are people letting him bully them into skipping checklists?

We have to self-police in this industry. There's nobody else there to save your bacon.
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I learned in the Massachusetts G-IV crash thread months ago that it would be impossible at a 121 operation to have guys who don't use checklists or don't use them properly.
 
SpiceWeasel said:
I just talked to pro Stan recently to get on record (I didn't tell them who I flew with), that when I wasn't comfortable with what the guy was doing, he told me to "get over it". It was more of a venting session for me.

Of course, I had a bad feeling about his standardization when I mentioned that the checklist responses have changed (how long ago now, @PhilosopherPilot ?) and he said to that "yeah I know but I don't really care."

The guy you flew with, I'm pretty sure I flew with him. He tells everyone how much he makes within 5 minutes of meeting yet wears black sneakers.

He got huffy and puffy when I asked him to follow the checklist SOP as far as showing the logbook. "But you already saw it!" "yup but it says you will physically show me the book at this checklist item."

A common thing at our shop (surprising considering the St Maarten incident on video), is that most CAs I fly with don't understand the taxi-only portion of the runway surface is, only for taxi. Gotten some dirty looks, rolled eyes, and snark for my insistence on adherence on 9 in BOS and 18L in CLT.
Click to expand...

Is he one of that select few (Dirty Dozen I think they're called)?

Another example of why when there is the suggestion that I apply to "wear khakis to work in a pilot base because you'd do a good job" I wince and get nauseous thinking that I'd be dealing with the same handful of problem children… over and over and over and over...
 
SpiceWeasel said:
I just talked to pro Stan recently to get on record (I didn't tell them who I flew with), that when I wasn't comfortable with what the guy was doing, he told me to "get over it". It was more of a venting session for me.

Of course, I had a bad feeling about his standardization when I mentioned that the checklist responses have changed (how long ago now, @PhilosopherPilot ?) and he said to that "yeah I know but I don't really care."

The guy you flew with, I'm pretty sure I flew with him. He tells everyone how much he makes within 5 minutes of meeting yet wears black sneakers.

He got huffy and puffy when I asked him to follow the checklist SOP as far as showing the logbook. "But you already saw it!" "yup but it says you will physically show me the book at this checklist item."

A common thing at our shop (surprising considering the St Maarten incident on video), is that most CAs I fly with don't understand the taxi-only portion of the runway surface is, only for taxi. Gotten some dirty looks, rolled eyes, and snark for my insistence on adherence on 9 in BOS and 18L in CLT.
Click to expand...

The checklists changed September 1. Man the attitude from that captain gets my blood boiling. Be a professional. Follow procedure and the regs. Things like checklist responses and regs are written in blood. Guys like that have the "can't happen to me" mentality, but it can.
 
Hacker15e said:
I learned in the Massachusetts G-IV crash thread months ago that it would be impossible at a 121 operation to have guys who don't use checklists or don't use them properly.
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Really? I missed that thread. Nope. It can happen anywhere. One of our bases has a lot of guys who fly together frequently, so they have a ton of procedural drift going on. The company is aware, but it's really hard to combat procedural drift with an unsupervised workforce. Especially if the people in that base take pride in noncompliance, and call themselves the "rebel base." Thankfully, that base doesn't fly into South America where our highest risk flying is...oh wait...
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
Really? I missed that thread. Nope. It can happen anywhere. One of our bases has a lot of guys who fly together frequently, so they have a ton of procedural drift going on. The company is aware, but it's really hard to combat procedural drift with an unsupervised workforce. Especially if the people in that base take pride in noncompliance, and call themselves the "rebel base." Thankfully, that base doesn't fly into South America where our highest risk flying is...oh wait...
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I saw some of that when I first got on the 330.

"We don't do the (current airline) procedure, we do the (former airline) procedure because you guys don't know what you're doing"

Boy, that's going to be an interesting hearing if the crap hits the fan.

However it quickly faded.
 
Derg said:
Is he one of that select few (Dirty Dozen I think they're called)?

Another example of why when there is the suggestion that I apply to "wear khakis to work in a pilot base because you'd do a good job" I wince and get nauseous thinking that I'd be dealing with the same handful of problem children… over and over and over and over...
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"Frequent fliers"
"Known crew members"
"Horrible Hundred"
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
Really? I missed that thread. Nope. It can happen anywhere. One of our bases has a lot of guys who fly together frequently, so they have a ton of procedural drift going on.
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Totally agree. That was the point I made in the other threads, too. IMHO, those who haven't seen it -- or think it can't happen because they're "too professional" -- just haven't been around long enough to see it.

There's a whole lot of, "no way, that could never happen here/to me/at my airline/in my career/etc" in these threads.

http://forums.jetcareers.com/threads/g-iv-down-in-ma.200819/
http://forums.jetcareers.com/threads/normalization-of-deviance.231103/
 
Hacker15e said:
Totally agree. That was the point I made in the other threads, too. IMHO, those who haven't seen it -- or think it can't happen because they're "too professional" -- just haven't been around long enough to see it.

There's a whole lot of, "no way, that could never happen here/to me/at my airline/in my career/etc" in these threads.

http://forums.jetcareers.com/threads/g-iv-down-in-ma.200819/
http://forums.jetcareers.com/threads/normalization-of-deviance.231103/
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Man I tell ya. All it takes is to work with ASAP for a month and the "can't happen here" attitude goes away.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
Man I tell ya. All it takes is to work with ASAP for a month and the "can't happen here" attitude goes away.
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After spending 4 years on an ASAP ERC, when people asked me about some of the things I saw, I always replied "You know the old saying about how you don't really want to see how the sausage is made? I got to see how the sausage was made. I don't look at sausage the same way anymore."
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
On a recent flight I asked the FO if he wanted to see the logbook. He said, "Nah, that's a captain thing." I reminded him that we lived and died as a crew, and I needed backup on making sure the logbook was legal because I will eff it up eventually. Sigh...
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During my pre-flight, once I'm done looking through the logbooks I hand them over to the FO and say here's the books if you want to look through them. About half of them take the offer. Also, once maintenance is finished with a service check or addressing a write-up I look it over and again ask if it looks good to them.
 
I have heard the same 500 TPIC rumor here this week, but it seems to be coming from the SWAPA side of the house. That I am aware of, there is no official word from the company regarding the change. . . . yet.
 
Haven't read through this thread and I'm sure it's on a completely different tangent now but.......

What good does dropping from 1000 to 500 do? They could drop it to 1 hour TPIC and still have the same result. Why not just drop it all together?
 
hcaeborev said:
Haven't read through this thread and I'm sure it's on a completely different tangent now but.......

What good does dropping from 1000 to 500 do? They could drop it to 1 hour TPIC and still have the same result. Why not just drop it all together?
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Not necessarily true.

Let me use myself for an example, say I was an applicant for Southwest and required 1000 TPIC.

Four year degree from a large aviation program, 20 years of airline experience in transport category, clean record and three years of captain experience in a 160 passenger jet aircraft.

778 hours of TPIC.
 
Derg said:
Not necessarily true.

Let me use myself for an example, say I was an applicant for Southwest and required 1000 TPIC.

Four year degree from a large aviation program, 20 years of airline experience in transport category, clean record and three years of captain experience in a 160 passenger jet aircraft.

778 hours of TPIC.
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'We do the same job!!1!1!1!!'
 
Derg said:
Not necessarily true.

Let me use myself for an example, say I was an applicant for Southwest and required 1000 TPIC.

Four year degree from a large aviation program, 20 years of airline experience in transport category, clean record and three years of captain experience in a 160 passenger jet aircraft.

778 hours of TPIC.
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Do you think you weren't good enough, 1 year ago, to be a 737 FO, at 15TPIC (whatever skyway got you)

I think that's the point.

Also, isn't @Trip7 first MTPIC gig going to be on a 717?

So again, in my best Hillary voice, "what difference does it make?"
 
Also, what does a Delta A320, full of passengers, have in common with Spirits A320, full of passengers?



160 happy passengers!
 
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