Richman
JC’s Resident Curmudgeon
Ahh. Florida.
"It's not a flying roach, it's a Palmetto bug"
Watching tourists flee in blind terror from those has been a secret pleasure of Floridians since Florida was a place.
RIchman
Southwest To Lower Minimums?
- Thread starter RMCBear08
- Start date
Watching tourists flee in blind terror from those has been a secret pleasure of Floridians since Florida was a place.
RIchman
PhilosopherPilot
Well-Known Member
I've only come close to leaving a trip once, and it was with a very notorious captain. We had a come to Jesus in Montego Bay. I told him, "I can't make you use checklists, but you can't make me fly either. I'll be happy to stay in Jamaica tonight." The funny thing is that when I tell that story everyone knows who I'm talking about with no other information. Why are people letting him bully them into skipping checklists?
We have to self-police in this industry. There's nobody else there to save your bacon.
I am Mr. Conflict Resolution, a pro at de-escalation and can probably even convince Charles Manson to behave at "high tea", but one captain got under my skin and tried to get me to agree to concur with a decision he was making that was so outside of what was legal because he was a check airman and "knew more" than me and "dammit, I'm a check airman, yadda yadda yadda" that I just packed my flight kit, left and was picking up the jetway phone when flight control called and cancelled the flight because of the same issue I brought to his attention earlier.
I expect the same from my copilots if I'm making an idiotic decision because the FAA is going to hammer us both without regard to "Oh, the captain YELLED at you, poor dear heart"
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Ahem.
By the way, it's "Air (space) Lines" in your latest update. Yeah yeah, blah blah blah, back at Northwest, it was "Airlines" but shut yower hole.
Long live Northwest! AIRLINES!
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
For every one of those stories, I've asked a CA to take a peak at it and sometimes I got: "I already checked it" or "ah, you don't trust me?"
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amorris311
Well-Known Member
That's when you say, " I flew this plane last week and we had a crazy write up. I just wanted to see what 'fix' they used." Or something of that order.
Long live Northwest! AIRLINES!
I'm comin' straight outta Compton...
USMCmech
Well-Known Member
There are a lot of us who flew somewhere other than the airlines and have some non 121 TPIC before becoming RJ FOs. A year of flying freight will get you about 500 TPIC in most places.
I'll grant you that all my TPIC is in an overgrown skyhawk, but I can still check the 1000+ TPIC box. I'm waiting to get to 1000 hrs Jet and 121 SIC to blast my resume out in the very near future.
Why are you waiting?
USMCmech
Well-Known Member
Little over a year ago, the biggest thing I had ever flown was the aforementioned overgrown Skyhawk. I need that 1000 hours of 121/Jet time before I can walk into an interview and feel like I belong there. Which I should reach in a matter of weeks.
Resumes are being updated, critiqued, and applications are being filled out as we speak. I'll be bugging your PM box very soon.
Imagine being a 1900 FO where 15 months previous he was instructing in a 150 and then the phone rings with a 404 area code…
Let the airline tell you no, not you.
PhilosopherPilot
Well-Known Member
Yeah, and you've hit the nail on the head of why it sucks sometimes being the FO. You have to be a chameleon and learn how to do the dance. Most guys who say something thing like that are just used to FOs not wanting to see the logbook. There are a hundred ways to play it off and still look at the book without being confrontational. You can make it into a game...
"Nah, I trust you. I just want to be sure tech ops isn't trying to screw us." (Play into his distrust of other departments.)
"Could you show me how to validate the logbook? I'm getting close to upgrade and I want to start thinking like a captain." (Play into his ego.)
"I trust you, but I want the CVR to hear me ask to see it, just in case something happens." (Play into his tinfoil hat tendencies.)
At my shop, both pilots are supposed to look at it. Some FO's don't want to but that's alright. They're gonna!
Richman
JC’s Resident Curmudgeon
I always liked the guys who kept the logbook hidden away and would say "it's fine" when I asked about it.
Some people are just hard to figure. The most awesomenest part of upgrading is that I no longer have to be a mind reader. That part of my brain can atrophe just like all the other parts.
Richman
Some people are just hard to figure. The most awesomenest part of upgrading is that I no longer have to be a mind reader. That part of my brain can atrophe just like all the other parts.
Richman
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
The cool Captains will just leave the logbook on the aft center console or on the floor leaning vertically against the PA phone. Always a good indication and my cue to take a peak at it. Once done, I put it back in that same spot and only then do they put it back in the storage slot to the CA's left side.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
To be fair, I've also gotten the: "Hey, thanks for looking through that book. Several my FOs out there don't even bother, and one didn't even want to when I asked."
So I get it, it can be both seats.
JustinS
Well-Known Member
Fortunately for us, the logbook is on the FO's side. So it has to go past me to get to its home. I always check it. As far as getting a remark like that, I've gotten to the point where If I know the captain is joking, and I know him well I'll just screw with him "Of course I don't." followed by laughs. If it's someone I didn't know that well, or someone who had a chip, I most likely wouldn't even reply, look over the logbook and put it away without responding, or at most I would simply state. "It's my job." It says it in the SOP for crying out loud. We are both legally liable for checking it...
They didn't put that one in the job description. "Must be a chameleon until upgrade."
I have yet to run into a Captain who doesn't run checklists. I look so forward (not really, but sort of) to a first leg with a captain like that. That has to be one of the biggest easiest NOPES in the history of NOPES. Oh you don't want to do checklists? I guess you don't want me to be your FO. We'll do checklists, or I'm not flying with you.
As far as your taxiing story with the FO heads down. Ramp told us ground told them our flight plan dropped out of the system and to refile. We're on a wide open ramp taxiing across at DEN. I ask the CA if he wants me to shoot off a quick ACARS message to dispatch to refile. He tells me no he wants me heads up going across the ramp. It was super slow. He felt he had to defend his reasoning and started explaining to me why even though it would probably be fine if I went heads down he just felt more comfortable if I had his back. I wasn't even going to question it to begin with. I totally got where he was coming from. He's probably seen people get burned, or he's been burned in the past, or maybe he as an FO burned a CA by being heads down and an aircraft misplacement happened while taxiing.
I had one CA who was chill, but had his quirks tell me that every CA has their own little quirks. He said pay attention to those, and maybe even ask why. They'll probably have a good story for it as he did for some of the quirks he had. I know even I have my own little "quirks" as an FO to CYA.
PhilosopherPilot
Well-Known Member
I gotta say. The guy who doesn't run checklists gets far less resistance than he should, in my opinion. The one thing he said that made me feel good was, "Most guys just turn me in to the chief pilot without letting me know they are upset. Thanks for talking to me directly."
Man up, and tell the guy you're uncomfortable, and never, ever, go running to the chief or pro-stands without trying to handle it yourself first.
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
I just talked to pro Stan recently to get on record (I didn't tell them who I flew with), that when I wasn't comfortable with what the guy was doing, he told me to "get over it". It was more of a venting session for me.
Of course, I had a bad feeling about his standardization when I mentioned that the checklist responses have changed (how long ago now, @PhilosopherPilot ?) and he said to that "yeah I know but I don't really care."
The guy you flew with, I'm pretty sure I flew with him. He tells everyone how much he makes within 5 minutes of meeting yet wears black sneakers.
He got huffy and puffy when I asked him to follow the checklist SOP as far as showing the logbook. "But you already saw it!" "yup but it says you will physically show me the book at this checklist item."
A common thing at our shop (surprising considering the St Maarten incident on video), is that most CAs I fly with don't understand the taxi-only portion of the runway surface is, only for taxi. Gotten some dirty looks, rolled eyes, and snark for my insistence on adherence on 9 in BOS and 18L in CLT.
Of course, I had a bad feeling about his standardization when I mentioned that the checklist responses have changed (how long ago now, @PhilosopherPilot ?) and he said to that "yeah I know but I don't really care."
The guy you flew with, I'm pretty sure I flew with him. He tells everyone how much he makes within 5 minutes of meeting yet wears black sneakers.
He got huffy and puffy when I asked him to follow the checklist SOP as far as showing the logbook. "But you already saw it!" "yup but it says you will physically show me the book at this checklist item."
A common thing at our shop (surprising considering the St Maarten incident on video), is that most CAs I fly with don't understand the taxi-only portion of the runway surface is, only for taxi. Gotten some dirty looks, rolled eyes, and snark for my insistence on adherence on 9 in BOS and 18L in CLT.