Skywest Questions

Der_Meister said:
I wish alpa national would get behind a hire union only at the major level (military excluded). This is one of the few insturies where you can be a non union guy an move up. Any other industry out there they rate non union guys on a job just slightly above a scab. That's where skywest is to me, take jobs from the union side of Inc and dont give 2 s**ts. Just above a scab....
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Such a motion would motivate the apathetic younger crowd to vote a union in very fast. But what would be the point thereof other than for the sheer fact of having a union? The action would be motivated out of fear, not out of a genuine desire to institute a functioning union.
 
Cloud Surfer said:
Such a motion would motivate the apathetic younger crowd to vote a union in very fast. But what would be the point thereof other than for the sheer fact of having a union? The action would be motivated out of fear, not out of a genuine desire to institute a functioning union.
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Career advancement, protection, loss of licenses, KCM, medical assistance all of the other myriad of things alpa or IBT offers.
 
Der_Meister said:
Nope the other side of Inc that got the short end of the stick so that your side would flourish. Ok so not scabs but, not pro union??so....?

From webster's:
3a : a contemptible person
b(1) : a worker who refuses to join a labor union

I know they brew that koolaid strong there in SGU. But it's hard to claim innocence when the union (xjt) side of Inc had over 4000 pilots 4 years ago while the non union side had 1200 (skw). Now the union side has 800 pilots and the non union side has 4600. So cry me a river every gain in your agreement has been on the backs of the union pilots on the other side of the company.
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Your numbers are a little off for skw. When I was hired over 5 years ago I was number 3200 if memory serves. Definitely not 1200.
 
Der_Meister said:
Nope the other side of Inc that got the short end of the stick so that your side would flourish. Ok so not scabs but, not pro union??so....?

From webster's:
3a : a contemptible person
b(1) : a worker who refuses to join a labor union

I know they brew that koolaid strong there in SGU. But it's hard to claim innocence when the union (xjt) side of Inc had over 4000 pilots 4 years ago while the non union side had 1200 (skw). Now the union side has 800 pilots and the non union side has 4600. So cry me a river every gain in your agreement has been on the backs of the union pilots on the other side of the company.
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Not to burst your bubble but when I was hired at the Mormon Air Force 6+ years ago I was around 3200.
 
Der_Meister said:
Nope the other side of Inc that got the short end of the stick so that your side would flourish. Ok so not scabs but, not pro union??so....?

From webster's:
3a : a contemptible person
b(1) : a worker who refuses to join a labor union

I know they brew that koolaid strong there in SGU. But it's hard to claim innocence when the union (xjt) side of Inc had over 4000 pilots 4 years ago while the non union side had 1200 (skw). Now the union side has 800 pilots and the non union side has 4600. So cry me a river every gain in your agreement has been on the backs of the union pilots on the other side of the company.
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I have a seniority number, but I'm not flying the line. Yet.

I'll be honest I never thought that after being a member here since 2003. That I'd ever find myself at a non-union shop. JC and my mother a teacher, have both always taught me to rabidly be pro-union. And I am. But both Wells Fargo and Sallie Mae said no for me to attending ATP. Otherwise, I'd still be living at home in Phoenix and not be TDY here in SLC and would for sure be at an ALPA regional when done with my training. But honestly I'll be forever eternally grateful, for SKYW's affiliated school for approving my loan, when others wouldn't, to finally help me fulfill my lifelong dream.

I fully understand and appreciate both the continued frustration ALPA pilots have with the Skywest groups apathy toward unionizing. Further, I fully understand the bitter acrimony toward non-union pilots reaping the hard-earned benefits gotten by union members. I agree wholeheartedly with the things that @ATN_Pilot has said in this thread. I even get your enmity towards SKYW, it sounds like you were on the XJT side of the house in a former life. That bitterness is fully warranted for the screw job that you guys got at the hands of SKYW management.

Having said that IMO this site went down a very dark rabbit hole a few years ago when it started comparing non-union pilots to scabs. I had no skin in the game at the time and sat quietly on the sidelines. I got a toe, hell a whole foot in the pool now. So I'm speaking up. Don't bring that crap back here again. Sure rail against SKYW pilots apathy toward unionizing. Or their continued reaping of union associated benefits and being on the Voltron Force, but refusing to form arms and legs, when a robeast attacks the Castle of Lions and its all hands on deck. But don't call them/us scabs, which is something that technically they're not. If and when there is an ALPA drive, it will be my most solum duty to vote yes and to get a union on property. I'm not alone in this feeling. So don't group all of us on the seniority list into such a nasty group of deplorables, when we haven't done the crime. Therefore we shouldn't have to do the time either.
 
Good post Max.

I can also assure you that all of this tough guy talk against SkyWest is confined to a few keyboard warriors. In my 7+ years at SkyWest, nobody ever said anything to me in person, and it also didn’t stop me from getting offers at what I think are the two best ALPA represented majors.

I definitely think SkyWest pilots need to unionize, but going off the rails like some of these people do does nothing but hinder that possibility.
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
I have a seniority number, but I'm not flying the line. Yet.

I'll be honest I never thought that after being a member here since 2003. That I'd ever find myself at a non-union shop. JC and my mother a teacher, have both always taught me to rabidly be pro-union. And I am. But both Wells Fargo and Sallie Mae said no for me to attending ATP. Otherwise, I'd still be living at home in Phoenix and not be TDY here in SLC and would for sure be at an ALPA regional when done with my training. But honestly I'll be forever eternally grateful, for SKYW's affiliated school for approving my loan, when others wouldn't, to finally help me fulfill my lifelong dream.

I fully understand and appreciate both the continued frustration ALPA pilots have with the Skywest groups apathy toward unionizing. Further, I fully understand the bitter acrimony toward non-union pilots reaping the hard-earned benefits gotten by union members. I agree wholeheartedly with the things that @ATN_Pilot has said in this thread. I even get your enmity towards SKYW, it sounds like you were on the XJT side of the house in a former life. That bitterness is fully warranted for the screw job that you guys got at the hands of SKYW management.

Having said that IMO this site went down a very dark rabbit hole a few years ago when it started comparing non-union pilots to scabs. I had no skin in the game at the time and sat quietly on the sidelines. I got a toe, hell a whole foot in the pool now. So I'm speaking up. Don't bring that crap back here again. Sure rail against SKYW pilots apathy toward unionizing. Or their continued reaping of union associated benefits and being on the Voltron Force, but refusing to form arms and legs, when a robeast attacks the Castle of Lions and its all hands on deck. But don't call them/us scabs, which is something that technically they're not. If and when there is an ALPA drive, it will be my most solum duty to vote yes and to get a union on property. I'm not alone in this feeling. So don't group all of us on the seniority list into such a nasty group of deplorables, when we haven't done the crime. Therefore we shouldn't have to do the time either.
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Well said, which is a lot more response than that BS warranted.
 
Der_Meister said:
Nope the other side of Inc that got the short end of the stick so that your side would flourish. Ok so not scabs but, not pro union??so....?

From webster's:
3a : a contemptible person
b(1) : a worker who refuses to join a labor union

I know they brew that koolaid strong there in SGU. But it's hard to claim innocence when the union (xjt) side of Inc had over 4000 pilots 4 years ago while the non union side had 1200 (skw). Now the union side has 800 pilots and the non union side has 4600. So cry me a river every gain in your agreement has been on the backs of the union pilots on the other side of the company.
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Over 50% of the pilot group has been here less than 4 years. The last union vote was 10+ years ago. Get your facts straight.
 
SlumTodd_Millionaire said:
Calm down. He didn’t say that non-union pilots were SCABs. Don’t put words in his mouth.
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Like calling someone one step removed from a scab and implying we're scabs because we "refuse" to join a union is that much better. Like I said, more than half the pilot group right now has been here WELL under 4 years.
 
JordanD said:
Like calling someone one step removed from a scab and implying we're scabs because we "refuse" to join a union is that much better.
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Sorry, man. He’s not wrong. In just about every other unionized profession, the union guys would spit on you as you walked past them. A union electrician in NY is likely to call a non-union electrician a flat out SCAB, no qualifiers on it. You wouldn’t want to hear what my union autoworker grandfather would say about a non-union worker. Pilots seem to think they’re entitled to choose non-union without criticism. I don’t know where they get that idea, but it’s foreign to the rest of the labor movement.

Like I said, more than half the pilot group right now has been here WELL under 4 years.
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I’m not sure what this is supposed to mean.
 
SlumTodd_Millionaire said:
Sorry, man. He’s not wrong. In just about every other unionized profession, the union guys would spit on you as you walked past them. A union electrician in NY is likely to call a non-union electrician a flat out SCAB, no qualifiers on it. You wouldn’t want to hear what my union autoworker grandfather would say about a non-union worker. Pilots seem to think they’re entitled to choose non-union without criticism. I don’t know where they get that idea, but it’s foreign to the rest of the labor movement.
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We can argue all day over if that's the case, but that attitude will do absolutely nothing to help a union drive. Want to turn people away? Imply that they're scum and don't deserve to get hired elsewhere.

I’m not sure what this is supposed to mean.
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You know when the last drive was. A majority of the old guard that voted the last one down are probably no longer here, and most people on property weren't here to vote on it. If it was as easy as saying "hey, let's vote on this tomorrow." I'm sure it would happen. It's not going to happen overnight.
 
Some of us haven't even had the option to vote Union or non-Union, Todd. Quit the witch hunt.

When I say some I mean over half the seniority list.
 
JordanD said:
We can argue all day over if that's the case, but that attitude will do absolutely nothing to help a union drive. Want to turn people away? Imply that they're scum and don't deserve to get hired elsewhere.
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Maybe, maybe not. I’m not advocating for either position as the way to achieve a successful union drive. I’m just pointing out that he’s not crazy for his opinion. It’s a legit view shared by the vast majority of the labor movement.

You know when the last drive was. A majority of the old guard that voted the last one down are probably no longer here, and most people on property weren't here to vote on it. If it was as easy as saying "hey, let's vote on this tomorrow." I'm sure it would happen. It's not going to happen overnight.
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A lot of people there seem to think the vote would be no different today.
 
SlumTodd_Millionaire said:
Calm down. He didn’t say that non-union pilots were SCABs. Don’t put words in his mouth.
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Pretty much tantamount though. :rolleyes:

SlumTodd_Millionaire said:
Sorry, man. He’s not wrong. In just about every other unionized profession, the union guys would spit on you as you walked past them. A union electrician in NY is likely to call a non-union electrician a flat out SCAB, no qualifiers on it. You wouldn’t want to hear what my union autoworker grandfather would say about a non-union worker. Pilots seem to think they’re entitled to choose non-union without criticism. I don’t know where they get that idea, but it’s foreign to the rest of the labor movement.
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The situation above is very different than Skywest's. In the scenario above there is already a voted union on the premises. The employees of said job has the option to join the union, or not, but still reap the many benefits of being an employee at said employer. While facing the scorn of his fellow employees.

At Skywest, there is currently no union on property. So hypothetically let's say that 40% of pilots on property want ALPA and vote for it. But 60% don't give or take apathy. Should the entire group of 40% who actually tried and signed their cards and voted, be to blame for the 60% that don't want a union or are just scared or apathetic? Should the brave ones who stuck their neck out on the organizing committee, who were possibly threatened or intimidated by management, but still stuck it out, also be viewed by their colleagues at other ALPA carriers as just a level above scabs? They did the hard legwork. But the whole group in this hypothetical scenario was either apathetic or voted no. I guess there are no points for trying huh? All or nothing. o_O

There's a lot of generalizations being made here, is all I'm saying.
 
Der_Meister said:
Nope the other side of Inc that got the short end of the stick so that your side would flourish. Ok so not scabs but, not pro union??so....?

From webster's:
3a : a contemptible person
b(1) : a worker who refuses to join a labor union

I know they brew that koolaid strong there in SGU. But it's hard to claim innocence when the union (xjt) side of Inc had over 4000 pilots 4 years ago while the non union side had 1200 (skw). Now the union side has 800 pilots and the non union side has 4600. So cry me a river every gain in your agreement has been on the backs of the union pilots on the other side of the company.
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Tell me again which pilots at OO caused your butt hurt? And your numbers are not even close to reality, OO was well over 3000 pilots when I started mid-2014. We are doing our best to get ALPA on board.
 
SlumTodd_Millionaire said:
No, I’m talking the exact same situation. Union company and non-union company. Sorry, that’s just how most of the labor movement feels. What you desire is abnormal, not typical.
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Well, technically ALPA is an association and not a true union. Having said all that in your scenario above, the NYC electricians and your autoworker grandfather. Would still spit on the members of the union organizing committee if a vote by a non-union group failed to be ratified?
 
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