Skywest Questions
- Thread starter flyingbum
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Rodger Wilco
Well-Known Member
This would be a small raise for me with more work restrictions. The way they are changing all the language and work rules seems to be a slide of hand and smoke and mirror. Why write everything so complicated and in grey?
In some areas is seems they are asking us to take a concession on work rules, a concession! The company is motivated to get a new contract, let's hold them to a good one while we can. Once the economy changes we will have no bargaining power.
I'd like to think that we are worth more than Republic and Endeavor, not less. Why should we have second (or third) rate pay? AND more complicated work rules?
Please, talk to your fellow pilots and encourage them to vote no. We need to not only turn this TA down but send a strong message to SGU that we are not cut rate pilots.
In some areas is seems they are asking us to take a concession on work rules, a concession! The company is motivated to get a new contract, let's hold them to a good one while we can. Once the economy changes we will have no bargaining power.
I'd like to think that we are worth more than Republic and Endeavor, not less. Why should we have second (or third) rate pay? AND more complicated work rules?
Please, talk to your fellow pilots and encourage them to vote no. We need to not only turn this TA down but send a strong message to SGU that we are not cut rate pilots.
Can someone smarter than me please explain to me how this voting thing works at a non union carrier? All I can imagine is a 100% No vote and management just implementing it anyway. Do you genuinely have any recourse?
BrettInLJ
Well-Known Member
Yeah, it’s a solid no from me even as a 0-3 year FO. I haven’t been talking to other pilots since I’m on days off out of town so can’t judge the sentiment of those outside the online communities.
It sounds like SAPA reps reached a point where they couldn’t get further with management. They sent it to the pilot group not so much as an endorsement of something we should vote yes on (at least not all the reps), but because either them or management need to hear it directly from us as a pilot group. I’m not saying that they shouldn’t have just walked away instead, just that it sounds like that is the scenario at hand.
It sounds like SAPA reps reached a point where they couldn’t get further with management. They sent it to the pilot group not so much as an endorsement of something we should vote yes on (at least not all the reps), but because either them or management need to hear it directly from us as a pilot group. I’m not saying that they shouldn’t have just walked away instead, just that it sounds like that is the scenario at hand.
Rodger Wilco
Well-Known Member
The ins and outs of union v. no union have been discussed, and I don't really want to take the thread in a new direction. I will say that I don't think that we could do much other than file a lawsuit saying that they are not doing what they promised, and/or hire a union at that point.
I don think that the Pilot Group, SAPA, or any Pilot Union has very much muscle, as per the labor laws in this nation that support big business over the individual worker. But please, lets not hijack the thread and talk union.
Xcaliber
El Chupacabra
I've done an apples-to-apples comparison on my real hours and bonus numbers from last year matched with the old/new year 7 ERJ CA pay, and for me, it amounts to a less than 5% pay increase. Subtracting out the 2.1% inflation from last year (I know some argue against doing that, but to me, it matters), it amounts to a 2.8% real pay increase for my paycheck. If I take that one year further (since the rate doesn't change until 2020), it's 0.7% pay increase. Hardly anything to write home about.
I don't know about other people, but the whole 79/89 block hour thing: since transitioning to the RJ three years ago (including FO SLC and CA MSP and DTW), I've had a total of 1 (one) month that that would have affected. I don't have the actual scheduled number, but I imagine it would've affected about 2-3 hours worth. Which equates to about $20/year. Woo.
I also don't know where RJ is getting a PPS value of $5.18/credit hour from. Last year (2017), it equated to $2.89 for me. The guarantee in the package is worth about $1.75, give or take. Both are WAY under his estimation. ALL bonuses, including Op/Fin/PPS/401k, totalled $5.01/credit hour.
Considering that there are about four things I want to see in a TA, and only one has anything to do with pay (scheduled block-or-better!), this is an easy no from me. I fully expect it to pass though, 64-36%.
I don't know about other people, but the whole 79/89 block hour thing: since transitioning to the RJ three years ago (including FO SLC and CA MSP and DTW), I've had a total of 1 (one) month that that would have affected. I don't have the actual scheduled number, but I imagine it would've affected about 2-3 hours worth. Which equates to about $20/year. Woo.
I also don't know where RJ is getting a PPS value of $5.18/credit hour from. Last year (2017), it equated to $2.89 for me. The guarantee in the package is worth about $1.75, give or take. Both are WAY under his estimation. ALL bonuses, including Op/Fin/PPS/401k, totalled $5.01/credit hour.
Considering that there are about four things I want to see in a TA, and only one has anything to do with pay (scheduled block-or-better!), this is an easy no from me. I fully expect it to pass though, 64-36%.
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B767
Well-Known Member
It’ll pass. Senior lifers (that’s not a deragatory term) and the fact someone hired today can “vote.” I said it a few pages back, and I’ll say it again. It looks good and looks like a raise to most people. Especially considering how quick upgrades are now. Realize though that management and the BOD have FAR better insite (and the fact SAPA is company) that things will not work out in the long run for you (generic).
This is a terrible deal that’s designed to keep 1,000 out of 5,000 happy in hoping the other 4,000 vote yes in hopes “they move on soon.”
They’re good at that. Took, what, a year plus to get proffering and bid for reserve days active from IT (I could be off on those numbers)? Makes you think IT is inept. But I bet they already have the programming in place to limit block hours in PBS and reserve utilization so very few get the incentive for blocking more than the numbers proposed after 9/2018.
This is a terrible deal that’s designed to keep 1,000 out of 5,000 happy in hoping the other 4,000 vote yes in hopes “they move on soon.”
They’re good at that. Took, what, a year plus to get proffering and bid for reserve days active from IT (I could be off on those numbers)? Makes you think IT is inept. But I bet they already have the programming in place to limit block hours in PBS and reserve utilization so very few get the incentive for blocking more than the numbers proposed after 9/2018.
tcco94
Future GTA VI Pilot
Well there's nothing legal binding to our TA or manual, so we can't go to court with the company. They can do whatever they want (I'm pretty sure). They could offer $45,000 sign on bonus tomorrow if they wanted. I don't think they will because it would push more guys toward a Union, but yeah the vote is just to make us feel good essentially. Like we have some type of voice. They don't have to follow PPM. Look at how that worked in SEA with CRJ crews (relocation bonus) or ERJ SLC bids going out of seniority so CRJ guys can't transition. Just to name a few that have happened in the last month. The list could go on.
tcco94
Future GTA VI Pilot
Not defending the rule because I think it should be 1 year, but a new hire today can't vote until they're off IOE.
Cloud Surfer
All Roads lead to Trantor
Well written post. I think it will pass 65% yes with 50% no and the rest will not have voted. The three mid-seniority captains that I have flown with find it to be an astounding raise. Year 1 - 2 pilots will vote it in overwhelmingly since they have not yet become aware of how ruthless management is with hoarding money and of course to them, it looks like a hefty raise. When the dust settles barely anyone will make incentive due to the PBS gimmicks. NHs will flock to SkyWest once again, eradicating whatever leverage we currently have. We are dealing with master chessplayers who have far better situational awareness of what we want and how we bid, and who may change the rules of the game at whim to suit them. If this all does unfold accordingly, we ought to have a serious ALPA discussion again.
alaskadrifter
Landing gear operator
Does not compute.
tcco94
Future GTA VI Pilot
I don't know any year 2 pilot who's voting yes. I don't know why everyone wants to point fingers at us under 2 years here. We are getting just as abused as middle ground guys. We need to look at the top of seniority lists. Guys who get 17+ days off a month, vote yes for any raise in 401k, and have absolutely no idea what's going on in the airline industry. I will say guys 12 months or less maybe more inclined to not really know or persuaded by the training department.
Most guys I fly with 15 years+ don't even know what other regionals are out there. They still think Eagle and Pinnacle are a thing. I flew one trip where my captain said "we will get a ATL base, mark my words"..........
We have had ATL for months...
Most guys I fly with 15 years+ don't even know what other regionals are out there. They still think Eagle and Pinnacle are a thing. I flew one trip where my captain said "we will get a ATL base, mark my words"..........
We have had ATL for months...
Ayork62493
GBR
A serious ALPA discussion is occurring, there’s a Facebook group for it. Send in your info if you’re interested. We are working on getting a website up
tcco94
Future GTA VI Pilot
130 members after the TA last year. Around 380 members before the TA this year. Just about 20 shy of 500 now. It's growing interest, that's for sure.
T-Swift
Well-Known Member
My captain on this trip I swear is a genius and knows all the ins and outs of the company and their tactics (ends up just being rightfully pessimistic) yet he still isn’t going to even vote I think!
Effing vote.. I’m so bothered by the damn apathy that has been pounded into you pilots! Get over it. Vote.
And vote no for the sake of using some of this damn leverage you have. It’s probably the most this pilot group has had in the past 20 years!!!!!!
Effing vote.. I’m so bothered by the damn apathy that has been pounded into you pilots! Get over it. Vote.
And vote no for the sake of using some of this damn leverage you have. It’s probably the most this pilot group has had in the past 20 years!!!!!!
How many union drives have failed at SkyWest? I was there for the one in early 2008. The company will do whatever takes to keep a union off property. This pay package is pure smoke and mirrors.
tcco94
Future GTA VI Pilot
I'm not sure but I think 2008 was the last union drive? From what I've been told we have over 1200 more pilots on property since the last vote.
What I read was ALPA was going to see the results of the TA. I imagine if we vote yes or its close to yes, they won't bother. Can't blame them. We need to make a statement.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Two union drives at Skywest from what I can remember. I worked the second one. Both were massive failures. i sure hope the next one ends better. You guys need a union desperately.
Ayork62493
GBR
Agreed, the union bashing here is disgusting and I’m tired of riding on the coat tails of union progression for the career. My lanyard and bag tags have actually worked well here so far as far as opening the captain’s minds up towards ALPA