Skywest, ASA, Expressjet Merger?

[Baronman]

The way skywest did it was rock solid. Even the XJT mec doesn't think there is any way around it.

Bring on the court battle, I enjoy watching alpa waste their money.

Say what you want but asa is now its own holding company. Skywest didn't buy anyone ASA did, with their own money. The paper trail tells this same story and the judge will look at the attempt to re brand asa as an attempt to separate it from skywest. The new holding company will stand in court, the precedent has been set before. The union doesn't have a leg to stand on.

So who do you know on the XJT MEC? I happen to know the Chairman, and speak with my local Rep frequently and nobody is corroborating your story.

Why would you enjoy ALPA wasting money? Unless you have your head buried in the sand you'd realize that this potential whipsaw has very real ramifications and ALPA is the organization representing the pilots in this matter. I know talking about representation to you is a vague concept but trust me, I wouldn't want to be a non-organized group without a contract going into a merger.

 

[granlistillo]

Hey Pat,

Would you be this bold faced in a crew room? Because if so, you do realize that I looked at our seniority list in slc for rj FO's and there's only two names. Next time don't make your screen name part of your real name.

Now having said that, if you wouldn't have been making skywest pilots look so bad, I wouldn't of looked up your name. Now post like a respectable gentlemen and represent our airline the way it should be.

Yuk
Unless I missed something that was deleted where was he rude? Expressing an unpopular opinion is now ungentlemanly? Making veiled threats is something a little unworthy of such a respectable member of the community as yourself.

 

[jynxyjoe]

So who do you know on the XJT MEC? I happen to know the Chairman, and speak with my local Rep frequently and nobody is corroborating your story.

Why would you enjoy ALPA wasting money? Unless you have your head buried in the sand you'd realize that this potential whipsaw has very real ramifications and ALPA is the organization representing the pilots in this matter. I know talking about representation to you is a vague concept but trust me, I wouldn't want to be a non-organized group without a contract going into a merger.

na·ture (nacher)
7. The essential characteristics and qualities of a person or thing

vin·dic·tive/vinˈdiktiv/
Adjective: Having or showing a strong or unreasoning desire for revenge

 

[pat84106]

Hey Pat,

Would you be this bold faced in a crew room? Because if so, you do realize that I looked at our seniority list in slc for rj FO's and there's only two names. Next time don't make your screen name part of your real name.

Now having said that, if you wouldn't have been making skywest pilots look so bad, I wouldn't of looked up your name. Now post like a respectable gentlemen and represent our airline the way it should be.

First, you're very petty and imature. Second my name isn't really pat, it is three letters that stand for something else in my life. Third I am not rude I am stating my opinion and from the last alpa vote I believe i'm in the majority. If you don't like what i have to say you can put me on ignore. This is one of the reasons I don't like unions, if you don't think their way or support their agenda they want to destroy you.

 

[jtrain609]

First, you're very petty and imature. Second my name isn't really pat, it is three letters that stand for something else in my life. Third I am not rude I am stating my opinion and from the last alpa vote I believe i'm in the majority. If you don't like what i have to say you can put me on ignore. This is one of the reasons I don't like unions, if you don't think their way or support their agenda they want to destroy you.

Because mrivc211 = a union?

Can somebody take out the trash with this guy?

 

[casey]

my name isn't really pat, it is three letters that stand for something else in my life

Pittiful, Arrogant, Trite ?

I have other ideas, but they would just be edited by the mods giving me the infraction for posting them.

 

[surreal1221]

Our MEC chair pretty much threw us under the bus today. Us being all the furloughed pilots who are junior to the XJT furloughees based off of DOH.

He said that it would be fine for the Company (ASA) to offer pref hiring to XJT furloughees, allow them to maintain their XJT Seniority #, they would be junior to current ASA pilots until the point of the SLI where they could then use their XJT seniority for the purposes of the SLI.

Isn't that nice.

Guess I'll get stoned for saying it and not being that happy about such a situation.

I have no problem with us offering jobs to these guys, but perhaps I don't quite see the ethical side of allowing them to use their XJT # during an SLI when they otherwise would (could) still be on the street during arbitration and an arbitrator would tell them they had no right to being integrated since they were off the property. Thus pushing all the most junior ASA pilot down to the bottom 1% of the company, allowing the original ASA pilots to deal with a second furlough in 18-20 month time.

*shrug*

XJT guys, thoughts? How would you feel if it was the other way around? I've got no issue being junior to an XJT pilot, active pilot, in a DOH or relative seniority % SLI. I also have no problem with ASA offering positions to furloughed XJT pilots instead of OTS guys during the next 12-18 months. I just do not agree with those XJT pilots who - possibly - are hired and brought in to work for ASA keeping their XJT # just for the sole purpose of being able to gain seniority during an SLI.

 

[jtrain609]

Uhm...how many furloughed XJT pilots did ASA hire?

I'm guessing the number is somewhere less than zero.

 

[Nick]

I am not rude I am stating my opinion and from the last alpa vote I believe i'm in the majority.

Under the old voting system, or the new one?

At the old pilot group, or the soon-to-be one?

 

[mxflyer]

Our MEC chair pretty much threw us under the bus today. Us being all the furloughed pilots who are junior to the XJT furloughees based off of DOH.

He said that it would be fine for the Company (ASA) to offer pref hiring to XJT furloughees, allow them to maintain their XJT Seniority #, they would be junior to current ASA pilots until the point of the SLI where they could then use their XJT seniority for the purposes of the SLI.

Isn't that nice.

Guess I'll get stoned for saying it and not being that happy about such a situation.

I have no problem with us offering jobs to these guys, but perhaps I don't quite see the ethical side of allowing them to use their XJT # during an SLI when they otherwise would (could) still be on the street during arbitration and an arbitrator would tell them they had no right to being integrated since they were off the property. Thus pushing all the most junior ASA pilot down to the bottom 1% of the company, allowing the original ASA pilots to deal with a second furlough in 18-20 month time.

*shrug*

XJT guys, thoughts? How would you feel if it was the other way around? I've got no issue being junior to an XJT pilot, active pilot, in a DOH or relative seniority % SLI. I also have no problem with ASA offering positions to furloughed XJT pilots instead of OTS guys during the next 12-18 months. I just do not agree with those XJT pilots who - possibly - are hired and brought in to work for ASA keeping their XJT # just for the sole purpose of being able to gain seniority during an SLI.

Are you really surprised? I'm not. These are the same guys who told my recurrent ground class that PBS is the reason all furloughees are returning to work; and that "although PBS doesn't seem to be that good for us right now, once [we're] senoir enough well love it." I'm sorry, I have no intentions of being at ASA for 20 years just to enjoy PBS. I never expected them to do anything but throw us under the bus. Heck, I'm expecting another furlough in 12-15 months now. I'm praying they prove me wrong...

 

[dasleben]

Our MEC chair pretty much threw us under the bus today. Us being all the furloughed pilots who are junior to the XJT furloughees based off of DOH.

He said that it would be fine for the Company (ASA) to offer pref hiring to XJT furloughees, allow them to maintain their XJT Seniority #, they would be junior to current ASA pilots until the point of the SLI where they could then use their XJT seniority for the purposes of the SLI.

Isn't that nice.

Guess I'll get stoned for saying it and not being that happy about such a situation.

I have no problem with us offering jobs to these guys, but perhaps I don't quite see the ethical side of allowing them to use their XJT # during an SLI when they otherwise would (could) still be on the street during arbitration and an arbitrator would tell them they had no right to being integrated since they were off the property. Thus pushing all the most junior ASA pilot down to the bottom 1% of the company, allowing the original ASA pilots to deal with a second furlough in 18-20 month time.

*shrug*

XJT guys, thoughts? How would you feel if it was the other way around? I've got no issue being junior to an XJT pilot, active pilot, in a DOH or relative seniority % SLI. I also have no problem with ASA offering positions to furloughed XJT pilots instead of OTS guys during the next 12-18 months. I just do not agree with those XJT pilots who - possibly - are hired and brought in to work for ASA keeping their XJT # just for the sole purpose of being able to gain seniority during an SLI.

I find it particularly surprising that ASA pilots (especially an ASA pilot who was up until recently furloughed himself) would already be calling for the stapling of XJT furloughed pilots. :dunno:

EDIT: You know, I shouldn't even get into this. If anyone needs me, I'll be in East Al-Jabalahad on an 18 day sit. I'm sure I can get JC through shortwave.

 

[surreal1221]

Stapling. No, by no means.

And if that's what it is...then I'll accept being called an ignorant fool.

I'd much rather see XJT recall XJT furloughs, instead of ASA hiring XJT furloughees - placing them junior to us - up until the SLI is complete - then being able to jump 200+ spots above junior ASA pilots by exercising their XJT seniority #.

XJT recalls their furloughed pilots, they get on their ACTIVE list prior to an SLI is complete, and I'm quite happy with the outcome. Will that happen? I don't know.

I have no problem with us bringing guys in from off the street, but I do take issue with watching them jump up a couple spots - even to being protected from a furlough again in 18-20 months, allowing ASA junior pilots to pound the sand at that time. Doesn't seem too equitable in my book.

This integration will be no where near a staple job. Two fine MECs, two fine pilot groups, now pushed into trying to figure out how to find an equitable solution for all concerned parties and based off of the comments I heard today - I can honestly tell you - not too many people in my requal class were too thrilled. We all agreed that we needed to hire those guys, and if they want a job - it should certainly be offered to them, I just found it quite strange that our own MEC leadership would even suggest something like that; not too sure if it'd be the same coming the other way. If it would be - then so be it.

Would like to know what the precedence is for such a scenario and how an arbitrator would address it.

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

First, you're very petty and imature. Second my name isn't really pat, it is three letters that stand for something else in my life. Third I am not rude I am stating my opinion and from the last alpa vote I believe i'm in the majority. If you don't like what i have to say you can put me on ignore. This is one of the reasons I don't like unions, if you don't think their way or support their agenda they want to destroy you.

No dog in this fight but you as a SKYW pilot... if you are really a SKYW pilot why are you so against unions? What're the benefits for you and your group to stay without representation?

I can see why the company would be anti union (whipsaw). But from your perspective, I just don't get it, the new SKYW has two ALPA companies surrounding it. The fights over, I think it's get with the future... or die.

 

[MikeD]

I have no problem with us bringing guys in from off the street, but I do take issue with watching them jump up a couple spots - even to being protected from a furlough again in 18-20 months, allowing ASA junior pilots to pound the sand at that time. Doesn't seem too equitable in my book.

Question for you, are there any regrets to being recalled? I mean, if this is the rat race and crap you have to come back to (and I assume you haven't started retraining yet?), do you ever wonder if its worth it?

 

[surreal1221]

Question for you, are there any regrets to being recalled? I mean, if this is the rat race and crap you have to come back to (and I assume you haven't started retraining yet?), do you ever wonder if its worth it?

Everyday.

I came off of military orders to attend requal training. Not too thrilled about saying good bye to just about $6500 a month (E5, GA BAH, BAS, Daily Per Diem, paid apartment / utilities)...

Only to now see this happening right before my eyes. I'll fortunately head back on orders in the middle of September, to enjoy all of the above - as well as get the hell away from this mess until the spring when I'll go back full time to ASA.

It's frustrating, no doubt about it. Told my wife the ridiculousness of what happened yesterday and she just kinda laughed and said that if I'm furloughed again it'd be best to just leave now while you're ahead and not too old to make another career change.

This isn't a temporary job to me, it was meant to be a full-time career (profession). If I'm going to keep getting strung along every 12 months and sent to the street, it's not really worth it.

No one has any answers right now, and I certainly don't expect any - but it'll be quite entertaining over the next 12-18 months around here.

I think if any of us junior pilots think we're safe from the economies of scale and PBS nonsense that ASA management will fight to keep (something will have to go - be it no-furlough clause, reduced vacation, something if we are to now trash the whole PBS work we've just done) I think we will be in for quite the surprise. Especially if this turns out to be a bad business deal 3-5 years down the road (re: fleet adjustment).

 

[jynxyjoe]

Everyday.

I came off of military orders to attend requal training. Not too thrilled about saying good bye to just about $6500 a month (E5, GA BAH, BAS, Daily Per Diem, paid apartment / utilities)...

Only to now see this happening right before my eyes. I'll fortunately head back on orders in the middle of September, to enjoy all of the above - as well as get the hell away from this mess until the spring when I'll go back full time to ASA.

It's frustrating, no doubt about it. Told my wife the ridiculousness of what happened yesterday and she just kinda laughed and said that if I'm furloughed again it'd be best to just leave now while you're ahead and not too old to make another career change.

This isn't a temporary job to me, it was meant to be a full-time career (profession). If I'm going to keep getting strung along every 12 months and sent to the street, it's not really worth it.

No one has any answers right now, and I certainly don't expect any - but it'll be quite entertaining over the next 12-18 months around here.

I think if any of us junior pilots think we're safe from the economies of scale and PBS nonsense that ASA management will fight to keep (something will have to go - be it no-furlough clause, reduced vacation, something if we are to now trash the whole PBS work we've just done) I think we will be in for quite the surprise. Especially if this turns out to be a bad business deal 3-5 years down the road (re: fleet adjustment).

Man, for the record I think you are CRAZY for coming back to this damn industry. In any case, I feel your pain on the integration. Make a funny sticker, stick it on your case, spit out any koolaid from the company or the union, and just do your best to enjoy your job. It'll take a little while.

 

[MikeD]

Everyday.

I came off of military orders to attend requal training. Not too thrilled about saying good bye to just about $6500 a month (E5, GA BAH, BAS, Daily Per Diem, paid apartment / utilities)...

Only to now see this happening right before my eyes. I'll fortunately head back on orders in the middle of September, to enjoy all of the above - as well as get the hell away from this mess until the spring when I'll go back full time to ASA.

It's frustrating, no doubt about it. Told my wife the ridiculousness of what happened yesterday and she just kinda laughed and said that if I'm furloughed again it'd be best to just leave now while you're ahead and not too old to make another career change.

This isn't a temporary job to me, it was meant to be a full-time career (profession). If I'm going to keep getting strung along every 12 months and sent to the street, it's not really worth it.

No one has any answers right now, and I certainly don't expect any - but it'll be quite entertaining over the next 12-18 months around here.

I think if any of us junior pilots think we're safe from the economies of scale and PBS nonsense that ASA management will fight to keep (something will have to go - be it no-furlough clause, reduced vacation, something if we are to now trash the whole PBS work we've just done) I think we will be in for quite the surprise. Especially if this turns out to be a bad business deal 3-5 years down the road (re: fleet adjustment).

I hear you. Its just interesting, since this forum section is truly a representative slice of the 121 world, to see how everytime there seems to be good news, there's bad news with it. And if there's bad news, then there's worse news along with it. NONE of this is of the individual pilot's doing, yet the individual pilot is seemingly the one having to pay the bar tab for drinks he didn't even order! And since this isn't a hobby, it's supposed to be a career, I can see the frustration. It shouldn't have to be this way for you guys. So many of you put a crap pile of time, hard work, money, sacrifice, and more just getting into the business. At some point, you're wanting to see a return for all that. People can only get kicked in the ribs so much.

I do wonder if there's even one place where the finger can get pointed for these problems, or is that convoluted too?

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

Surreal, they're senior to you and the junior ASA pilots. Are you trying to suggest that ASA should hire them but make them resign their XJT seniority number? That's hardly fair and equatable. I wouldn't worry about it, since there will likely be fences for 2-3 years.

 

[surreal1221]

Surreal, they're senior to you and the junior ASA pilots. Are you trying to suggest that ASA should hire them but make them resign their XJT seniority number? That's hardly fair and equatable. I wouldn't worry about it, since there will likely be fences for 2-3 years.

That any different than being hired by a company that requires you to resign your previous company's #?

And you're right, there likely will be fences...for how long...starting when...*shrug*

Like I said above, none of these individual concerns may even be an issue - so long as local and other airline (re: major) retirements begin to pick up through next summer and continued increased in GDP/Economic recovery.

I'll just don the Tin foil hat and trust no one.

I hear you. Its just interesting, since this forum section is truly a representative slice of the 121 world, to see how everytime there seems to be good news, there's bad news with it. And if there's bad news, then there's worse news along with it. NONE of this is of the individual pilot's doing, yet the individual pilot is seemingly the one having to pay the bar tab for drinks he didn't even order! And since this isn't a hobby, it's supposed to be a career, I can see the frustration. It shouldn't have to be this way for you guys. So many of you put a crap pile of time, hard work, money, sacrifice, and more just getting into the business. At some point, you're wanting to see a return for all that. People can only get kicked in the ribs so much.

I do wonder if there's even one place where the finger can get pointed for these problems, or is that convoluted too?

Too convoluted for sure. It's never that simple. We as labor have done a fine job of creating these problems that our respective management teams can exploit to drive us apart as well as frustrate the hell out of ourselves. A bit silly, but we did it to ourselves.

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

Another company isn't about to be MERGED with their own company.

So, youre saying: "Hows unemployment? Having trouble feeding your family? Going to go bankrupt soon? Sure, we can help... the only thing is that you have to start back on year 1 pay, resign your seniority number and be junior to a couple hundred people whom you would otherwise be senior to if only you could afford to wait a few more months."

What about the golden rule? Would you want to be offered that "opportunity"?