Skywest, ASA, Expressjet Merger?

[kellwolf]

I'd much rather see XJT recall XJT furloughs, instead of ASA hiring XJT furloughees - placing them junior to us - up until the SLI is complete - then being able to jump 200+ spots above junior ASA pilots by exercising their XJT seniority #.

Honestly, what's the difference other than they'll have jobs for longer than they would? This is how the XJ guys are being done at 9E. They're junior on our list, but they'll be integrated using their XJ seniority number. I don't see a problem with it. If they were recalled to XJT, they'd still have the same seniority number, and the end result of where they wind up on the SLI would be exactly the same as if they were hired in the meantime on the bottom of ASA's list.

 

[surreal1221]

Alright, cool deal.

Industry standard is industry standard. Just didn't know it was happening elsewhere. Let's roll.

 

[Trip7]

Surreal and MxFlyer you guys need to seriously chill out. You guys depress yourselves by never thinking positively and assuming the worst will always happen. You guys are back from furlough WAY sooner than you ever thought and now you're demoralizing yourselves by assuming you're headed right back. This merger will be a great thing for everyone involved. Also, I pretty sure the sli will be relative seniority. The precedent has already been set by DAL/NWA

 

[jtrain609]

I'm not entirely sure why folks are debating an issue that hasn't occurred, regarding a statement that isn't binding and affects something that will take 12-18 months to come to fruition.

Or said another way, some of ya'll are worrying yourselves into a minor frenzy over nothing.

Most of what people are posting on here is straight up wrong, so why run with it?

 

[surreal1221]

Surreal and MxFlyer you guys need to seriously chill out. You guys depress yourselves by never thinking positively and assuming the worst will always happen. You guys are back from furlough WAY sooner than you ever thought and now you're demoralizing yourselves by assuming you're headed right back. This merger will be a great thing for everyone involved. Also, I pretty sure the sli will be relative seniority. The precedent has already been set by DAL/NWA

As before, you haven't been in our shoes.

Continue to enjoy the comfort.

 

[jtrain609]

As before, you haven't been in our shoes.

Continue to enjoy the comfort.

I have.

For longer than you guys, if that means anything.

And folks are getting wound up over nothing.

Save your piss and vinegar for the real battle, you're going to need it.

 

[surreal1221]

How many of your XJT peers do you expect to return? We managed to keep a pretty good pulse and came - albeit on the low side - pretty accurate as far as how many would not come back (prognosis was 12 total resignations, 14 actually happened - out of 156 furloughs).

 

[jtrain609]

How many of your XJT peers do you expect to return? We managed to keep a pretty good pulse and came - albeit on the low side - pretty accurate as far as how many would not come back (prognosis was 12 total resignations, 14 actually happened - out of 156 furloughs).

Not sure, we won't know until we make the final sweep.

Resignations haven't been accepted by the company.

 

[mxflyer]

Surreal and MxFlyer you guys need to seriously chill out. You guys depress yourselves by never thinking positively and assuming the worst will always happen. You guys are back from furlough WAY sooner than you ever thought and now you're demoralizing yourselves by assuming you're headed right back. This merger will be a great thing for everyone involved. Also, I pretty sure the sli will be relative seniority. The precedent has already been set by DAL/NWA

I apologize for not sharing your Daly-ttitude. When you talk about demoralizing oneself I think you've done plenty of that here for all of us. If everything that you've said would happen acutally happened recalls would have happened WAY before now.
Personally, I think this merger will be a good thing in the long run. I have MANY friends at XJET and look forward to working with them. I do believe that things are going to get messy and I also agree with surreal that our MEC will toss us under the bus. So I won't be surprised if it happens.

And don't think I'm depressed, we can take stuff for that now

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

ASA is buying Expressjet. And they are being merged. Not Skywest. So I don't see how it's being violated?

Pretty simple: ASA Holdings is purchasing ExpressJet Holdings. The XJT holding company letter clearly states that it is binding on any successor of holding. Therefore, the holding company letter is binding on the new ASA Holdings. So, obviously, ASA and XJT have to merge. But wait, it goes further! The holding company letter is also binding on any affiliate of Holdings. SkyWest Inc. is an affiliate of ASA Holdings. Therefore, SkyWest Inc. is bound to the XJT holding company letter.

Now, with that said, it's pretty obvious that SkyWest management wouldn't have gone to the trouble of creating a new sub-holding company if they didn't intend to try to fight the scope language by claiming that SkyWest Inc. isn't bound to an agreement between ASA Holdings and ALPA. That means a legal battle will likely result. The good news is that the XJT holding company letter clearly states that all disputes under the letter will be resolved by expedited binding arbitration rather than federal or state court. That means that it will be resolved much faster, and the arbitrator will be far more familiar with pilot contract language.

I think the odds are definitely on the side of the XJT pilots, if they decide to push the issue and demand that the scope letter be adhered to. It's always possible that they'll waive the requirement, though, if they think it's in their best interests.

Anyway JA is one ridiculously smart dude. I'm sure him and his team of corporate lawyers analyzed this from every angle for months. A court battle might be a waste of time and resources.

I can assure you that ALPA scope attorneys have far more expertise than anyone Mr. Atkin could hire. He's probably following advice of Ford & Harrison attorneys, and none of them can be considered scope experts by any stretch of the imagination. They'll put together a good argument, I'm sure, but the author of the scope language is truly a legal genius, and I'd put my money on him any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Let the SKW pilot group decide for themselves if they want a union or not.

So you're arguing for the abrogation of XJT contract language? I swear, you get worse with every post that you make.

 

[kellwolf]

Surreal and MxFlyer you guys need to seriously chill out. You guys depress yourselves by never thinking positively and assuming the worst will always happen. You guys are back from furlough WAY sooner than you ever thought and now you're demoralizing yourselves by assuming you're headed right back. This merger will be a great thing for everyone involved. Also, I pretty sure the sli will be relative seniority. The precedent has already been set by DAL/NWA

Eh, you can also say precedent has been set by any other mergers that have come before. It's not even clear how the 9E/9L/XJ SLI is gonna go down, so I can hardly say I'm "pretty sure" it'll be relative because NWA/DAL didn't result to random stabbings in the parking lot or the union getting booted US Airways style. A lot of factors will come in to play, and people on both sides of the deal are gonna be pissed off. That's about the only thing I would say I'm "pretty sure" about.

Now, I agree some people are getting a bit tweaked over some shrouded future, but thinking positive isn't gonna do it. I was thinking myself into sunshine and rainbows a plenty. The fall only hurts worse when reality sets in. The trick is to take a realistic (even if it does sometimes turn cynical) approach. Stick to hard facts, contact reps for the up to date info and (for the love of god) don't buy into internet rumors or get all giddy about things just so people can hear it here first or something.....

 

[mwflyer]

My god, Pat, the adults are talking... Mmm'kay?

You can always tell the trolls, because when the founder of the website calls them out, they never respond. They answer every post around it, but never address Doug. Hmmmmmmm.........

 

[mrivc211]

First, you're very petty and imature. Second my name isn't really pat, it is three letters that stand for something else in my life. Third I am not rude I am stating my opinion and from the last alpa vote I believe i'm in the majority. If you don't like what i have to say you can put me on ignore. This is one of the reasons I don't like unions, if you don't think their way or support their agenda they want to destroy you.

Pat,

You're not the only anti union person on these boards. The reason why you make people upset and give our airline a bad name is the way you convey your message. Like a 5 year old child. The equivalent problem was when people would tell velo to calm down. They liked his message but not so much his method.

I'm just giving you a heads up that your making this pilot group look bad in the way you portray your message. There's nothing threatening about that.

 

[meritflyer]

Again, don't buy the hype.

IF this merger goes through, and once things settle down, expect the XJT and ASA pilot groups to file a petition to make all three companies one single carrier.

You can count on the shareholders of XJT approving the merger. Even the mere $6 and change they're being repaid doesn't adequately compensate them for their paid in capital and respective return.

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

Are we on the road now to accepting the regionals as a career? Because that's the other thing that needs to be considered....defining whether the regionals are a "farm team" for the mainline, or have they become a career place. That will determine which way to go. Consolidation of the regionals will take it down the road of career. I wonder if thats the direction 121 guys want to go. If so, cool. If not....

As a non-121 guy, I would be fine if the minimum pay for a first year pilot is around 30k, 40k minimum after that, and senior captain pay topped out over 100k. I think I am living in a pipedream, though.

 

[Clocks]

How many of your XJT peers do you expect to return? We managed to keep a pretty good pulse and came - albeit on the low side - pretty accurate as far as how many would not come back (prognosis was 12 total resignations, 14 actually happened - out of 156 furloughs).

About 70% are accepting recall when they get their letter, 30% are deferring.

As jtrain said those 30% wont be forced to "come back or resign" until the recalls make it all the way to the bottom of the list and they start working their way back up. After this most recent 48 recalls about 240 recall letters have gone out to get 160 pilots to come to recall-training. 107 pilots still haven't gotten a recall letter (leaving a total of 187 pilots still on furlough including those who deferred).

My numbers may be a little off, but it's roughly that.

 

[Trip7]

I apologize for not sharing your Daly-ttitude. When you talk about demoralizing oneself I think you've done plenty of that here for all of us. If everything that you've said would happen acutally happened recalls would have happened WAY before now.
Personally, I think this merger will be a good thing in the long run. I have MANY friends at XJET and look forward to working with them. I do believe that things are going to get messy and I also agree with surreal that our MEC will toss us under the bus. So I won't be surprised if it happens.

And don't think I'm depressed, we can take stuff for that now

WAY earlier like when? Check my post history. I stated numerous times that all furloughs would be back by the fall. You and Surreal both laughed and said spring 2011 at the earliest. ASA and Expressjet are both much better off together than at each others throat. This merger and the others that are sure to follow will help stabilize the regional industry and improve working conditions. Expressjet just recalled 48 more and ASA is about to hire. No one is headed to the street anytime soon.

 

[gtpilot]

WAY earlier like when? Check my post history. I stated numerous times that all furloughs would be back by the fall. You and Surreal both laughed and said spring 2011 at the earliest.

You also stated that Skywest was getting Mesaba. Easy to make correct predictions when you throw out so many!

All in good fun, man, all in good fun!

 

[WacoFan]

Quick questions I've always wondered. A couple pages ago (and I've only "scanned" this thread) there was talk about Mesa and someone buying Mesa. My question is why would anyone buy Mesa? In the banking world (one of my firms practice areas) people will see a troubled bank and either offer WAY below book value - like 20 or 30 cents on the dollar - or simply wait for the bank to fail, then take their chances at dealing with the FDIC to feast off the carrion, eating the good stuff and leaving the bad (which in an acquisition, you take all - the good and the bad). So my question is, why buy Mesa rather than let it implode and cherry-pick things you want?

Thanks in advance, and sorry for the hijack.

 

[gtpilot]

I apologize for not sharing your Daly-ttitude. When you talk about demoralizing oneself I think you've done plenty of that here for all of us. If everything that you've said would happen acutally happened recalls would have happened WAY before now.
Personally, I think this merger will be a good thing in the long run. I have MANY friends at XJET and look forward to working with them. I do believe that things are going to get messy and I also agree with surreal that our MEC will toss us under the bus. So I won't be surprised if it happens.

And don't think I'm depressed, we can take stuff for that now

Agreed, I think merging to pilot groups will be a positive thing overall but it's hard not to be anxious about being put back on the streets when all is said and done. Got any happy pills for me? :buck: