Skywest, ASA, Expressjet Merger?

WacoFan said:
Quick questions I've always wondered. A couple pages ago (and I've only "scanned" this thread) there was talk about Mesa and someone buying Mesa. My question is why would anyone buy Mesa? In the banking world (one of my firms practice areas) people will see a troubled bank and either offer WAY below book value - like 20 or 30 cents on the dollar - or simply wait for the bank to fail, then take their chances at dealing with the FDIC to feast off the carrion, eating the good stuff and leaving the bad (which in an acquisition, you take all - the good and the bad). So my question is, why buy Mesa rather than let it implode and cherry-pick things you want?

Thanks in advance, and sorry for the hijack.
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Basically to get their 700/900's for pennies on the dollar. Might be easier to do this prior to complete liquidation of that dump.
 
gtpilot said:
You also stated that Skywest was getting Mesaba. Easy to make correct predictions when you throw out so many! :D

All in good fun, man, all in good fun!
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Check the post history again...Never did state that they actually were getting Mesaba:D I said they were in "negotiations" to purchase Comair, Compass and/or Mesaba but that obviously fell through.
 
stuckingfk said:
Basically to get their 700/900's for pennies on the dollar. Might be easier to do this prior to complete liquidation of that dump.
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Thanks - I get that - guaranteed "pennies on the dollar" vs. the chance of losing that opportunity in a BK. However, wouldn't you inherit the liabilities and employees as well? Perhaps an asset sale would be better. Not sure - the airline business is unfamiliar.
 
WacoFan said:
Quick questions I've always wondered. A couple pages ago (and I've only "scanned" this thread) there was talk about Mesa and someone buying Mesa. My question is why would anyone buy Mesa? In the banking world (one of my firms practice areas) people will see a troubled bank and either offer WAY below book value - like 20 or 30 cents on the dollar - or simply wait for the bank to fail, then take their chances at dealing with the FDIC to feast off the carrion, eating the good stuff and leaving the bad (which in an acquisition, you take all - the good and the bad). So my question is, why buy Mesa rather than let it implode and cherry-pick things you want?

Thanks in advance, and sorry for the hijack.
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It's no longer about their routes that regionals are after but rather control of the entire market. Skywest wants control of the majority of regional feed in the united states. They are buying all these operating certificates and forcing united and continentals hand into needing them.

With this move a few things are clear, sky west is staying in the regional feed business for the long term.

And we will not be flying any larger aircraft in the near future as a lot of peep thought we would.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Pretty simple: ASA Holdings is purchasing ExpressJet Holdings. The XJT holding company letter clearly states that it is binding on any successor of holding. Therefore, the holding company letter is binding on the new ASA Holdings. So, obviously, ASA and XJT have to merge. But wait, it goes further! The holding company letter is also binding on any affiliate of Holdings. SkyWest Inc. is an affiliate of ASA Holdings. Therefore, SkyWest Inc. is bound to the XJT holding company letter.

Now, with that said, it's pretty obvious that SkyWest management wouldn't have gone to the trouble of creating a new sub-holding company if they didn't intend to try to fight the scope language by claiming that SkyWest Inc. isn't bound to an agreement between ASA Holdings and ALPA. That means a legal battle will likely result. The good news is that the XJT holding company letter clearly states that all disputes under the letter will be resolved by expedited binding arbitration rather than federal or state court. That means that it will be resolved much faster, and the arbitrator will be far more familiar with pilot contract language.

I think the odds are definitely on the side of the XJT pilots, if they decide to push the issue and demand that the scope letter be adhered to. It's always possible that they'll waive the requirement, though, if they think it's in their best interests.



I can assure you that ALPA scope attorneys have far more expertise than anyone Mr. Atkin could hire. He's probably following advice of Ford & Harrison attorneys, and none of them can be considered scope experts by any stretch of the imagination. They'll put together a good argument, I'm sure, but the author of the scope language is truly a legal genius, and I'd put my money on him any day of the week and twice on Sunday.



So you're arguing for the abrogation of XJT contract language? I swear, you get worse with every post that you make.
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Todd, I am not arguing for the abrogation of the XJT contract language. I believe it is in our best interests to commit all of ALPA's resources to implementing a fair SLI between XJT & ASA, and a fair and equitable new contract that raises regional Pay, QOL, and job protection to a new level.

However, if ALPA does think they can win on the scope protection clause without a doubt, by all means take it to court. I just fear a long drawn out process that delays or erases all benefits the merger could have given us, especially if ALPA loses.
 
What would be reasons why the XJT MEC would agree to not apply their successorship clause to SkyWest, Inc?
 
Trip7 said:
Todd, I am not arguing for the abrogation of the XJT contract language. I believe it is in our best interests to commit all of ALPA's resources to implementing a fair SLI between XJT & ASA, and a fair and equitable new contract that raises regional Pay, QOL, and job protection to a new level.

However, if ALPA does think they can win on the scope protection clause without a doubt, by all means take it to court. I just fear a long drawn out process that delays or erases all benefits the merger could have given us, especially if ALPA loses.
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In the end, it's better for all THREE groups to be one list. If they're not, what's to stop Daddy Skywest from playing you off each other? Just because you're under one corporate umbrella doesn't mean a thing. You're still "competing" with Skywest when it comes to flying. Ask TSA and GoJets how well that works out. Contract time comes around for ASA/XJT, Skywest is just another airline management team working for the shareholders, and they WILL follow the playbook. Things such as "If you don't do this deal, I'm afraid we may be forced to let this United flying go over to Skywest." If you don't have a good scope clause, good luck. At best, they'll transfer it, you'll fight it out in court, and the guys furloughed when the planes left will be back to work in a year or two. At worst, you'll be beaten down to sign a sub-par deal just to get back what you already had. "Precedent has been set."
 
GaTechKid said:
What would be reasons why the XJT MEC would agree to not apply their successorship clause to SkyWest, Inc?
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I am assuming Skywest will offer in the combined pilot contract the 'better' parts of both contracts, or extremely strong scope language, or a significant bump in hourly rates in exchange. If I were XJT, I'm not sure you could offer me anything to give it up.
 
GaTechKid said:
What would be reasons why the XJT MEC would agree to not apply their successorship clause to SkyWest, Inc?
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None. I'm pretty sure the ExpressJet pilots will have their union reps' inboxes overflowing with demands that all 3 lists be merged. ExpressJet pilots already expended the negotiating capital in their prior negotiations to get that scope language put in. We all know what happened at Mesa and Republic. They had to sign sub par contracts to get the scope language in their contract that requires one list for all their company's flying. That shouldn't have to happen for ASA/SKW/XJT, there should be no concessions in exchange for one list. This situation is the exact reason why that scope language and letter exists.

I mean, it's only fair that XJT pilots get access to SFO, LAX, SLC and Skywest pilots get......Cleveland, uhhh wait, I mean Newark. Yeah. All jokes aside, it has to happen, the 3 lists have to be merged and it's going to be a huge deal if Skywest Inc doesn't go along with that. Hopefully the recognize the legally binding nature of the XJT scope clause and just agree to merge the lists.

The argument that ASA is its own holding company and somehow seperate from Skywest is a very disappointing development and certainly gets things off to a sour start if true. Then again we don't know all the facts yet, it's certainly possible that 1 list has always been a part of the plan, but all indications are pointing to a legal battle I'm afraid.
 
I have no problem merging as long as theres 10 year fences! We have a lot of west coast guys based in Ord waiting for respectable SFO and LAX slots that have been here over 10 years.
 
mrivc211 said:
I have no problem merging as long as theres 10 year fences! We have a lot of west coast guys based in Ord waiting for respectable SFO and LAX slots that have been here over 10 years.
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But what do you fence? Putting up 10 year fences to keep guys from hopping bases effectively makes the merger useless. Then the question becomes "What are you willing to give management to get those fences?"
 
kellwolf said:
But what do you fence? Putting up 10 year fences to keep guys from hopping bases effectively makes the merger useless. Then the question becomes "What are you willing to give management to get those fences?"
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I think 2 year fences are reasonable. 2 years is an eternity in the regional world, and by 2013 attrition should be resuming at all carriers. Personally I have no desire to change bases or go fly a 90 seat aircraft. I'm happy with my current base and equipment, granted compensation and work rules need to be improved. 80% of the XE pilot group probably feels that way. The other 20% are California commuters who got stranded 2 years ago or are very junior people who are commuting hub-to-hub.

Also, I'm sure there are at least a few skywest pilots who would like an ATL, CLE, IAD, IAH, or EWR base and/or a larger ORD base. The ORD part seems particularly ridiculous! Two separate pilot bases for the same company operating feed under the same banner at the same airport?!?!?! are you kidding? XE would probably get pushed out of ORD if the lists stay separate.
 
SkyWest would have no problem with that. They kicked ASA out of SLC and then they opened then closed an ATL base for us.

I would like to see a single list as an IAH base would work out swell for me.
 
GaTechKid said:
What would be reasons why the XJT MEC would agree to not apply their successorship clause to SkyWest, Inc?
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It's possible that SkyWest would tell them that the purchase will not happen if they require a merger of the lists. If the XJT MEC were to think that the purchase is in their pilot group's best interests, then they could decide that waiving the requirement would be better for their pilots than not going through with the purchase.

That's the only reason that I can think of, and I have no idea if that is something that is a consideration for them, but it is an example of why an MEC might decide that the scope protections don't have to be enforced.
 
So the evening after the merger was announced, we were finishing up a 15+ hour duty day at 1:00AM, and were kindly waiting in the van for a SkyWest crew from DEN who arrived about the same time as us. While standing on the curb, I turned to my crew and said, "If we start talking about the merger AT ALL on this ride, I'm opening the door and jumping out of the van." Seriously, I know it's big news, but must that be ALL we talk about?

Is that all the Delta and US Airways and United and Continental and Pinnacle and Colgan and Compass and Trans States and Mesaba guys talk about all day?

Personally, I'm going to just keep going to work the same as I did yesterday and the same as I did the day before yesterday. When something comes to a vote, I'll vote. Until then, I hope all my paychecks are deposited on time, and I hope I don't get reassigned into a day off. There is no reason to get all riled up right now about things that are a) out of our control at the moment, and b) not going to be an issue for months.
 
RJ fight! WOoOoOOOOOOoOOOOooooOOOOOOOoOOOOOo *cough* OOooOOOOOOOOooooooo doggy! :)
 
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