shuting down in FL???

Re: From AOPA

Good news!!

I heard from admin that ASA will be visiting the FPR campus and possibly conducting interviews in the next 2-3 weeks. This is awsome news. I also heard they may lower their mins for us Pan Amers. I would even consider staying at ASA for my entire career.
 
Re: From AOPA

[ QUOTE ]
I also heard they may lower their mins for us Pan Amers.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought they already did that.

Personal opinion, I can see lowering mins or preferential hiring for a furloughed or out of business group of airline pilots. Lowering mins for CFIs b/c their school is having trouble isn't the same. If ASA didn't already have stacks of resumes flooding their doors, I MIGHT be okay with this. As it is, I'm NOT okay with this......
 
Re: From AOPA

How much is PanAm giving ASA for this visit? I guess the CRJ sim does it all. But congrats to PA CFIs for getting the opportunity.
 
Re: From AOPA

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I also heard they may lower their mins for us Pan Amers.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought they already did that.

Personal opinion, I can see lowering mins or preferential hiring for a furloughed or out of business group of airline pilots. Lowering mins for CFIs b/c their school is having trouble isn't the same. If ASA didn't already have stacks of resumes flooding their doors, I MIGHT be okay with this. As it is, I'm NOT okay with this......

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you kidding??!!! Do you really think that ASA is lowing minimums because Pan Am is making some changes, or as you so inaccurately put it, "having trouble"? Come on!!! Maybe they are considering lowering their mins for the same reason American Eagle, Express Jet, Mesaba, and Piedmont lowered their mins for PAIFA grads... They know our training turns out pilots that are successful, and are not going to wash out of the initial ground school.
 
Re: From AOPA

yeahthat.gif
 
Re: From AOPA

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I also heard they may lower their mins for us Pan Amers.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought they already did that.

Personal opinion, I can see lowering mins or preferential hiring for a furloughed or out of business group of airline pilots. Lowering mins for CFIs b/c their school is having trouble isn't the same. If ASA didn't already have stacks of resumes flooding their doors, I MIGHT be okay with this. As it is, I'm NOT okay with this......

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you kidding??!!! Do you really think that ASA is lowing minimums because Pan Am is making some changes, or as you so inaccurately put it, "having trouble"? Come on!!! Maybe they are considering lowering their mins for the same reason American Eagle, Express Jet, Mesaba, and Piedmont lowered their mins for PAIFA grads... They know our training turns out pilots that are successful, and are not going to wash out of the initial ground school.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh gag.

I wish I had a smiley that puked
 
Re: From AOPA

[ QUOTE ]
Oh gag.

I wish I had a smiley that puked

[/ QUOTE ]

Wanna borrow one?

puke1.gif
 
Re: From AOPA

Is that REALLY the best that you can come up with?? "I wish I had smiley that Puked!!" Honestly, I really couldn't careless how you feel. Turk, as well as many others, will be happy to fill the slots that are available. So you go ahead and continue doing exactly what you are doing... Puke Away!! Puke Away!!

Seriously, though.... What I don't get is what causes the reaction that Lruppert expressed? Do you think we are making up the fact that the mins are lower, or is there some other reason you care to share?? Are you that bent out of shape that someone like Turk is beginning to see the rewards for his hard work?? What gives??
 
Re: From AOPA

[ QUOTE ]

Are you kidding??!!! Do you really think that ASA is lowing minimums because Pan Am is making some changes, or as you so inaccurately put it, "having trouble"? Come on!!! Maybe they are considering lowering their mins for the same reason American Eagle, Express Jet, Mesaba, and Piedmont lowered their mins for PAIFA grads... They know our training turns out pilots that are successful, and are not going to wash out of the initial ground school.

[/ QUOTE ]

Realistically, I think a PAIFA grad has as much chance of busting out of interview/training just as much as an ATP/ERAU/UND/Tab/ATA/Westwind/Purdue, etc, etc grad does. There's no guarantees in this business. You could be the best stick in the world, and might not interview well and not get hired. Conversly, you could be the best people person and ace the interview, yet flunk the flight check. Or, you could have no trouble with either, and just have a bad day that day. So to say that "They know our training turns out pilots that are successful, and are not going to wash out of the initial ground school," is a tad disingenuous, since the same can be said for any number of schools, and these same schools could have the situations I outlined above.

Just food for thought. Not bagging on, nor lending support to, PAIFA. In that sense, none of us here truly knows if and why mins have been lowered in the past, or will be lowered now.
 
Re: From AOPA

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Are you kidding??!!! Do you really think that ASA is lowing minimums because Pan Am is making some changes, or as you so inaccurately put it, "having trouble"? Come on!!! Maybe they are considering lowering their mins for the same reason American Eagle, Express Jet, Mesaba, and Piedmont lowered their mins for PAIFA grads... They know our training turns out pilots that are successful, and are not going to wash out of the initial ground school.

[/ QUOTE ]

Realistically, I think a PAIFA grad has as much chance of busting out of interview/training just as much as an ATP/ERAU/UND/Tab/ATA/Westwind/Purdue, etc, etc grad does. There's no guarantees in this business. You could be the best stick in the world, and might not interview well and not get hired. Conversly, you could be the best people person and ace the interview, yet flunk the flight check. Or, you could have no trouble with either, and just have a bad day that day. So to say that "They know our training turns out pilots that are successful, and are not going to wash out of the initial ground school," is a tad disingenuous, since the same can be said for any number of schools, and these same schools could have the situations I outlined above.

Just food for thought. Not bagging on, nor lending support to, PAIFA. In that sense, none of us here truly knows if and why mins have been lowered in the past, or will be lowered now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, so maybe I should have said "have less of a chance of washing out of the initial training". And I agree, there are no guarantees in this business. The problem I have with what you said is that all of it is dependant on the individual. All the school can do is provide the opportunites and the training. If the individual screws up, then that is on his/her shoulders. Now if we, as potential newhires, continuously fail, then it is going to come back on the school, and the mins will go back up. So don't you think the school is going to make sure they are training their "students" to the highest level to ensure they are successful?? If they don't, then their whole business model goes down the tubes...

I just think it is rather childish for certain people to feel like they need to "puke" just because someone else is being presented with a potential opportunity.
 
Re: From AOPA

S*itload of PanAm'ers were visiting Ari last week...

Talked to one fellow who just left PanAm for Ari and he told me "Look, it's awful training, and they rape you up the a$$"...

That summed it up for me.
 
Re: From AOPA

Sorry, gotta go with MikeD. If PanAm grads were the ONLY ones that were up to that level, then yeah I could see it. ATP has a CRJ program, and so does MAPD. Flight Safety has had a bridge program with ASA for years. As Mike said, it's up to the individual. Saying that it's the school that allows you to get through training without washing out seriously detracts from independent achievement IMO. I'm sure if they wouldn't get blasted, Pan Am would be happy to say "our students wash out less than the average CFI that teaches at a Part 61 school." That's what they're really trying to say, or at least it sounds that way. I see no difference in Pan Am's training, Flight Safety's training, ATP's training, etc. So to say they are lowering the mins b/c of the training at the school doesn't fly with me. Now, if Pan Am were to come up with some independently reviewed numbers SHOWING their students washed out at a lower rate than CFIs from other schools, then I might cut some slack. Until then, it's all preening and posturing.
 
Re: From AOPA

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, gotta go with MikeD. If PanAm grads were the ONLY ones that were up to that level, then yeah I could see it. ATP has a CRJ program, and so does MAPD. Flight Safety has had a bridge program with ASA for years. As Mike said, it's up to the individual. Saying that it's the school that allows you to get through training without washing out seriously detracts from independent achievement IMO. I'm sure if they wouldn't get blasted, Pan Am would be happy to say "our students wash out less than the average CFI that teaches at a Part 61 school." That's what they're really trying to say, or at least it sounds that way. I see no difference in Pan Am's training, Flight Safety's training, ATP's training, etc. So to say they are lowering the mins b/c of the training at the school doesn't fly with me. Now, if Pan Am were to come up with some independently reviewed numbers SHOWING their students washed out at a lower rate than CFIs from other schools, then I might cut some slack. Until then, it's all preening and posturing.

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No one is saying that ONLY Pan Am grads are at that level, or that it is the school that keeps a person from washing out. It is the schools job to maintain a level of training that is attractive to potential employers. It is a strong testament that both FSA and ATP have strong relationships w/ their airline partners. Those relationships are only in place because of the high level of training that those schools continue to provide. Tell me, how many FBO's do you know of that have bridge programs, or agreements with a regional to interview at lower than the public mins?? How many FBO's have the pull to get the regionals to interview at their campus? I am very curious...
 
Re: From AOPA

None, and here's why. An FBO's primary job is NOT flight training. <collective gasp> That's right, they make money by selling fuel, renting hangars and other related junk. In fact, a lot of FBOs don't even have CFIs. It wouldn't be beneficially for them to start a bridge program. They also prefer to KEEP CFIs instead of sending them off to the airlines. Academies are designed from the ground up as pilot mills with a built in CFI replacement program. It's beneficially for them to have agreements, otherwise they wouldn't get any new students. Why pay to go to a school that has no upward mobility? Just b/c an FBO doesn't have a bridge program does not mean their CFIs are unworthy of ground school. I'd like to put a 600 hour CFI up against a 600 hour Pan Am CFI. I bet you'd be surprised how close they actually are.
 
Re: From AOPA

"How many FBO's have the pull to get the regionals to interview at their campus? I am very curious... "

None is the correct answer. They don't have to. That's not how it works outside of a few academies. The FBO route, you gain valuable experience by instructing a bit longer and have no use for a bridge program. The FBO route costs less money but takes a little longer. In some situations, such as an older guy, a guy with VA benefits, or a guy that neeeds a very structured enviornment, I can see recommending the academy type school However, I could never recommend PanAm to ANYONE because of their misleading advertising and marketing statements. Blaming hurricanes for shuting down a program instead of just admitting your business model is changing is just another example of the PanAm style. People will vote with their feet. It will be interesting to see how many people leave PanAm for other schools after this.
 
Re: From AOPA

given the proper financial backing (ie Key loan, or something else), any FBO program can knock out your ratings just as fast as any academy program. reason why most FBO training takes longer is that the students are local pilots who live at home, have a full-time job, and try to swing both. if they had the finances to go full force at an FBO those pilots could easily show equal, if not better, results than as at an academy. hell, we do the training for the local Air Force recruits and they get done with their PPL in about a month and log no more than 50 hours, with many under that time. its all about motivation, and money. if you have the motivation but no cash, you won't get to fly(flights cost $$$). if you have cash and no motivation you just waste time and money. if you have both you tend to have great success.

on a lighter note, i was taxiing in from a flight yesterday and guess whats parked on our FBO ramp. good old N317PA. one of the seminoles we used down at Pa in Fort Pierce. i checked my logbook and had a bunch of flights logged in N317PA. just thought that was cool to see a plane i used to fly in Florida up here in Buffalo, NY. turns out its being used at Beaver Community College for their flight program (run by Panam). talked to the pilots and they said that BCC was picking up some of the displaced CFIs from Fort Pierce.
 
Re: From AOPA

[ QUOTE ]
Realistically, I think a PAIFA grad has as much chance of busting out of interview/training just as much as an ATP/ERAU/UND/Tab/ATA/Westwind/Purdue, etc, etc grad does.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think MikeD hit the nail on the head with this one. The major problem I have with Pan Am is that they try to convince people that anyone who attends their program has the advantage over anyone else out there. In addition, as I've said before, many of the pan am folks I've met in person appear to be counting on pan am to substitute for a lack of personality and/or other qualifications to get them the job they want.

For example, if you look on the recent placements list you'll see that a pan am grad was recently was hired by chautauqua. I happen to know that this person has a bachelor's degree (aviation related) and completed an internship with chautauqua. Now, which area of this person's background do you think was most influential towards being hired (or even getting an interview) at that particular airline? Do you think the interviewer said "Yeah I see you have a degree and demonstrated performance within our company, but...HOLY COW!YOU WENT TO PAN AM! YOU'RE IN!"
Someone looking at pan am's website would only see a partial truth, and partial truths are exactly what pan am is selling.
 
Re: From AOPA

Why do you suppose PanAm continues to support this site with the content that this particular forum contains? Still trying to figure that one out.....
 
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