Scottsdale again.....

602, very well said, and I hope it gets into print. I've contacted one of the SDL City Council members on my desire to bring this before one of their next meetings in person and be heard. This issue is pure BS. And it pisses me off more since I'm a SDL resident since 1971, back when it was the West's Most Western Town, and LONG before these outside transplants moved in.

Here's some bio on SDL Councilman Wayne Ecton who made the remark. Heck, he can even be reached by e-mail. I personally petitioned Councilman Bob Littlefield. I will attack this issue until I get sent back to Iraq in a little while. I intend to bring it to the Council floor.

http://www.scottsdaleaz.gov/council/default.asp?catID=7
 
My letter yesterday to SDL City Councilman Bob Littlefield

Councilman Littlefield,

My name is Michael Daftarian. I'm currently serving
as a Captain and fighter pilot in the United States
Air Force, though I write to you not in an official
capacity, but as a private citizen of the United
States and a longtime resident of the cities of
Scottsdale and Paradise Valley.

I was angered and personally offended to read as
presented in the Arizona Republic online news [
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0922jets22.html
]

the comments made by Councilman Wayne Ecton regarding
noise complaints generated my military jet activity at
Scottsdale Municipal Airport. I take exception to his
implication that Scottsdale should suggest to military
aircraft/aircrews that they are not welcome to transit
Scottsdale airport. I would like to ask your advice
as to the possibility of addressing the City
Council on this matter in public session as a private citizen and not in any capacity as an officer of the United States military. If this is possible, would you be able to inform me how best accomplish this goal.

Sincerely
Michael Daftarian
 
Reply from SDL City Councilman Bob Littlefield

Captain Daftarian:

As a Vietnam combat veteran myself and also as a supporter of the
airport I
was, as the newspaper reported, stunned when Ecton made that comment.
I
have clashed with Ecton numerous times over airport issues and I can
assure
you his feelings about the military do not reflect mine. As far as I
am
concerned the military is always welcome in any part of Scottsdale
including
the airport. I remember when I cam home from Vietnam we veterans were
not
always welcome in many places and I will certainly not stand for that
attitude in my town!

At the beginning of every Council meeting we have a time set aside for
public comment on items that are not on that night's agenda. You
simply go
up to the City Clerk (ahe sits at a table on the main floor of the
Council
chambers) before the meeting starts at 5:00 P.M. and fill out a comment
card
and you will be given three minutes to speak. Our next three meetings
will
be held on the evenings of 9/23, 9/29 and 10/7.

If you choose to speak at one of our meetings please make it a point to
introduce yourself to me before the meeting.


Councilman Bob Littlefield

Consider that I will be speaking at one of these meetings. The exact one TBD within the next couple of days. Public invited.
 
Generally, all you need to to to address a city government meeting is let them know when you would like to address them and what you'll be addressing and they will schedule you into the "open comments" period of the appropriate meeting.

Each meeting will have a session - usually after the opening of the meeting and after the minutes of the previous meeting have been read along with the agenda of the current meeting - that will allow for open issues to be addressed by the public. Afterwards each issue that will be covered will come up and depending on the issue it may or may not have comment time appropriated.

You want in on the "open comment" period. Or you could try to work it into any current issues on the table dealing with SDL. Like the 70 homes being zoned under the FAP.

If you need research or any help in the matter you know how to get ahold of me.
smile.gif


Oh, and all meetings minutes are recorded and available to the public via FOIA.

(edit) Doh! Beaten!
grin.gif
Let me know the meeting you're going to go to and I'll show up.
 
I wrote Mr. Ecton a note, as well. May as well let him know people are listeneing.

[ QUOTE ]
Dear Coucilman Ecton,

I am saddened by some of your comments as of late.

I recently read the article in the AZ Republic titled "Fighter Jet Refueling Stops Causes Uproar in Scottsdale" and wrote the following letter to the editor. I thought you should read it as well, in case it doesn't make the paper.


-------------
"Snobsdale shows it's true colors"

The residents of Scottsdale should be ashamed of themselves.

The recent article "Fighter Jet Refueling Stops Cause Uproar in Scottsdale (T. Ropp, 9/22/03)" really rubbed a lot of people the wrong way.

Not the people you think. And certainly not because of the jets themselves, but rather because of the ignorance and ostentatiousness that seems to run rampant in the North East corner of the Phoenix Metro area.

As a pilot I - and many of the pilots I know, including military pilots - find the attitudes expressed in the article, and the commonly known attitude of Scottsdale residents about Scottsdale Municipal Airport (SDL) in general, down right disgusting and appalling.

For years now local residents have complained about noise from SDL. However, they seem to easily forget the fact the airport was there long before any of those very residents who are complaining even new Scottsdale existed, let alone moved in. Look at aerial photographs of the site from the '40s and the surrounding area is nothing but barren desert for miles with one lone, dirt road leading away from the airport to the southwest.

Even with this fact in mind, the airport and the aviation community has been more than accommodating by way of incorporating noise abatement procedures, recommended curfews and even installing a 1-800 phone number to which noise complaints can be made.

Yet, this is still not enough.

Calls for outright closure and, more commonly, even greater restrictions on airport operations are made on a nearly daily basis. Community action groups have been formed. And now, many of the residents, and city council members, have the outright gall to complain about "fighter jets" - the very jets that are used to keep this country safe, secure and stable.

It's because this nation is safe, secure and stable that the residents of Scottsdale have been able to amass the wealth they now posses. And it's that very wealth which affords them the opportunity to even live in Scottsdale in the first place.

Yet the issue is deeper than the patriotism issue - there is an economic issue.

SDL and the surrounding airpark is, by several different accounts, the single largest economic engine in Scottsdale. If SDL were to be shut down or crippled by excessive noise limitations the economic engine that is SDL would shrivel and die.

If that engine were to shrivel and die the tax revenue it generates would need to be replaced somehow, someway. It doesn't take a genius - or even someone of average intelligence - long to figure that the replacement vehicle for that lost revenue could very easily be in the form of property tax.
Million dollar and multi-million dollar homes make nice, fat targets for the tax collector.

How fast would those who complain about noise switch to complaining about taxes?

In the end it comes down to an issue of tolerance. The aviation community has been more than tolerant of these petty, complaining neighbors. But I think it's far past time that SDL and the pilots it serves to stand up and take back our airport and put these obnoxious, spoiled busybodies in their place.

After all, we were here first.
---------------

While I may not be one of your constiuents I do use SDL and I do work in the airpark and I would hope my comments and opinions are taken as seriously as one of your voters.

I would like you to consider just how important both the airport, and the military, is not only to Scottsdale but the nation. SDL is the busiest - if not second-busiest - single-runway, general aviation airports in the nation. Airports generate reputations and the reputation of SDL is one of hostility and snobbery. Reputations can affect business in ways very few appreciate or understand. And a city council that does not support it's airport certainly doesn't help matters.

You would be very remiss to one day find that the airport has been "run out of town" and the council is forced to find ways to replace the lost tax revenue the airport and airpark generate.



Sincerely,

(edit) Doh! left my name in here ... not that I don't trust ya'll but its the luirkers ... damn, dirty lurkers!
grin.gif

Commercial Pilot

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll post any response I might get.
 
We live under the approach path to SNA - about 8 miles out. It really is not that bad, yes there are aircratf over head but it is not like you have to stop your conversation if you are outside till the airplane has gone by. When they take of towards us, I have to admit that the airplanes are more noticable, but that probably happens 10 times a year, and I only notice it probably twice. I honestly do not mind it - yet saying that I would not like it any louder.
 
[ QUOTE ]

The newspaper only reported the sensational portion of the discussion.
Prior to my "intemperate" remark, there was information given to us about
previous landings.  The military altered their approach and departures to
reduce the noise impact on residents at our request.  They were cooperative
and understanding.  I asked at the meeting if we could request the military
to continue to be considerate and only use our airport when necessary. This
initiated a heated debate during which I made my poor judgment remark.
There was a lot said in this meeting that was not reported.  Also, there is
background information about our good relationship with military pilots that
has not been reported.

I had no intention of offending anyone.  I am not anti-military. The
military is vital and I support all they do. I apologize to readers that
took the meaning of my poor judgment remark that I am anti-military.  Anyone
is welcome at the Scottsdale Airport when there is a real need.  It was a
poor choice of words to have said they are not welcome.  Not every airport
has such a refueling contract according to my information.   We have a
refueling contract with them and will honor it. I also care about residents
located in noise corridors.

The Aviation Sub-Committee was created to work with residents, pilots and
aircraft owners to find a way to reduce aircraft noise over Scottsdale.  We
are exploring every avenue and it is challenging.  Anyone is welcome when
there is a need.  The issue is not military.  The issue is noise.  We
continuously work with all pilots to find ways to reduce the noise impacts.
We have good relations with the military and they have been cooperative.


Councilman Ecton

[/ QUOTE ]

Well there ya go. He missed the point completely. The airport was there first and if people have a problem with the noise they shouldn't move in next to a friggen airport.

It amazes me that over the years as aircraft have progressivley become more quiet noise complaints have gone up dramatically. The variable? People are moving in closer and closer to airports. Solution. Move away from an airport if you don't like it.
 
[ QUOTE ]

.  I asked at the meeting if we could request the military
to continue to be considerate and only use our airport when necessary. .

[/ QUOTE ]

Only when necessary? So they're still reluctantly welcome.

Jackass.
 
So I fired this back to the esteemed councilman.

[ QUOTE ]
Coucilman Ecton,

I appreciate your timely response.

However, you seem to have missed my point. If it was a failure in my writing then I apologize. My issue is not with a comment over military pilots - although it was rather misfortunate - my issue is with the "noise problem" itself.

You say you work with pilots to lessen the impact of noise. This is not new. The aviation community has been more than flexible in working with surrounding communities across the nation - not just SDL. And in every case, every time, every airport where noise abatement procedures and "fly quiet" campaigns have sprung up the community is never satisfied and wants more. So, my question is this: what has the surrounding community done lately to help the issue other than complain and threaten to close the airport outright?

The airport was there first. It was built in 1940 and was there long before any of the residential and community buildup that surrounds it today was even conceived.

It amazes me as the years go by aircraft get progressively quieter yet noise complaints continue to rise. What's the constant in this equation? People are continung to move in closer and closer to airports then have the outright nerve to complain about the noise. And when city councils allow new neighboorhoods to be zoned within 1.5 miles of a runway it only makes the situation worse.

And, the situation is rapidly reaching ridiculous extremes.

I can tell you this, however, there is a growing feeling within the aviation community to start fighting back. Part of the reason the problem is where it stands is because the aviation community has been too willing to give in and everytime we give in the community only expects more.

There is no need to respond unless you feel compelled. I just wanted to make you aware that as a community aviation is growing weary of these unwarranted attacks on our airports.

Sincerely,


[/ QUOTE ]
 
[ QUOTE ]
Would do the same if I could reach anywhere near Mach 1.

Screw them still.

[/ QUOTE ]

Start shooting that gun off, though...
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sweet lookin plane

[/ QUOTE ]

The A-10 ain't no plane. It's a gattling gun with wings!
grin.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

I think it is pretty cool how those things can crawl back home with half a tail and part of a wing missing. Man what a workhorse! What mm is the ammo in that gun anyway.
 
[ QUOTE ]
30mm depleted uranium shells(I think)

[/ QUOTE ]

30mm. DU is one of the shells we can carry. Normal is TP, or Target Practice, a 30 mm slug. Also HEI, or High Explosive Incendiary, self-explanatory. The last is API, or Armor Piercing Incendiary, with a DU core; rarely used because of the DU.


602, good show. Post Ecton's response, if there is one.
 
Tell me when you're going to the city council meeting so I can either show up myself or set the VCR. Believe it or not, I actually watch those things when they televise them on the local public access channel.

Makes me crazy after a while, especially after those dolts with their $60,000,000 subsidy to build a WAL-MART at the old Los Arcos site. Oh, but the city gets all of the revenue from the parking lot... Umm, wait... Parking lot?
smile.gif


That'll bring back "The West's most Western Town" motto! Or maybe the condo's that we're building along an irrigation ditch on Indian School/Scottsdale Road... Eek! That's not an irrigation ditch, that's the "Waterfront".
 
[ QUOTE ]

Thanks for your e-mail. I understand the issue.  They are doing nothing but
complaining.

Councilman Ecton

[/ QUOTE ]

Ecton's response to my second e-mail.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Thanks for your e-mail. I understand the issue.  They are doing nothing but
complaining.

Councilman Ecton

[/ QUOTE ]

Ecton's response to my second e-mail.

[/ QUOTE ]

What the HELL is that supposed to mean?
 
I think it was an answer to this:

[ QUOTE ]
So, my question is this: what has the surrounding community done lately to help the issue other than complain and threaten to close the airport outright?

[/ QUOTE ]
 
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