Sad to hear....the reality?

Anyone remember this quote from Steve Bucemi:

[ QUOTE ]
What if I told you insane was working fifty hours a week in some office for fifty years at the end of which they tell you to piss off; ending up in some retirement village hoping to die before suffering the indignity of trying to make it to the toilet on time? Wouldn't you consider that to be insane?

[/ QUOTE ]
 
Happiness, success, fulfillment, enjoyment, and their converse (unhappiness, failure, etc.) are all internal.

Those things cannot come from a job, no matter how good or how bad, because a job is external.

People, you may or may not be in control of the world around you and the cards it deals you, but you are in control of how it affects you.
 
Mesalounge, heh. I used to read that board, then I realized how bitter and jaded everyone is over there. I can understand why, but you do have a point MikeD it was their choice to go there. It's probably going to be my choice, but I KNOW the pay and work environment is gonna suck the first three years at least. If I know that ahead of time, I see it as I have no right to complain about it, just slug through it as best I can. If I could get on with another regional before I turn 30-32, believe me I would. With a stack of resumes of people way more qualified than me on every CP's desk, MAPD is my best shot at a job sooner rather than later. If I were about 5 years younger, I'd have no problem going the CFI route.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Mesalounge, heh. I used to read that board, then I realized how bitter and jaded everyone is over there. I can understand why, but you do have a point MikeD it was their choice to go there. It's probably going to be my choice, but I KNOW the pay and work environment is gonna suck the first three years at least. If I know that ahead of time, I see it as I have no right to complain about it, just slug through it as best I can. If I could get on with another regional before I turn 30-32, believe me I would. With a stack of resumes of people way more qualified than me on every CP's desk, MAPD is my best shot at a job sooner rather than later. If I were about 5 years younger, I'd have no problem going the CFI route.

[/ QUOTE ]

At least you admit that you realize what you're getting into, and will do your best to "slug it out". Good on you.

It's those that act like they were told they were going to get $100K/yr as 1900 FOs at Mesa, but now bitch of how low the pay is, that irk me.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone remember this quote from Steve Bucemi:

[ QUOTE ]
What if I told you insane was working fifty hours a week in some office for fifty years at the end of which they tell you to piss off; ending up in some retirement village hoping to die before suffering the indignity of trying to make it to the toilet on time? Wouldn't you consider that to be insane?

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Mike, it is a quote from ConAir. Very good quote if you ask me. Makes total sense if you think about it for a bit.
 
ok, I'm going to chime in on the 135 duty time issue that was discussed earlier. The scenario presented by eat sleep fly does indicate a violation of the part 135 duty times. The 14 hour day is a maximum, not a goal like some companies seem to think it is. If you look at FAR 135.267 (e) ( for unscheduled one and two pilot crews ) you will notice that there are exemptions to the 8 and 10 hour flight time limits, but the circumstances must be " beyond your control " and the reg goes on to list the additional rest required if you exceed those times. As for duty times you go to 135.267 (c) this is where it mentions the 14 hours, granted the wording only mentions the 14 hours day as " a regularly assigned duty period of no more than 14 hours " and this is what causes some people to think they can surpass it if the circumstances are " out of their control ", if you look at FAR 135.273 you will see that flight attendants are the only ones the FAA gives a list of exemptions to the 14 hour duty day to. What some people don't understand is that if a flight crew exceeds this duty time limitation the company is supposed to self disclose the fact to the FAA ( the company, not the crew ) this means your company is essentially telling on you when you do so, and if they don't and the FAA catches the fact in an audit you and the company may very well find yourselves in hot water. So rest assured they are most likely disclosing it. There is however an FAA legal interpretations book that lists two seperate cases form 1982, or 1992 ( don't currently have the book in front of me )where people have used the defense that they weren't "scheduled" to surpass 14 hours and had the origional Judge's decision to violate them reversed, but it by no means implies that there is no duty time limitation to flight crew members, it simply gives you a precedent to cite during your appeal since the judge in your first day in court doesn't even have to give you a chance to defend your actions, they will simply make their decision and you can either accept it or appeal it.
Now, if you are going to use the fact that you were scheduled to complete the duty period within the 14 hour time frame and due to circumstances beyond your control you weren't able to do so you will need to provide a time line that supports this fact, does your company provide you with documentation of this? nope.
I know I don't have all the answers, but I do believe that by trying to justify why you can get away with doing something just because the words in the regulations aren't as clear as they should be doesn't make it an acceptable practice, it just gives you a defense to use in the event that the FAA decides to take action against you. Even if you eventually defend your position sucessfully it will still be expensive, and may still adversely affect your career, maybe just in the short term, but possibly in the long run as well.

Please don't take this as being preachy, it's not intended to be, this is a very grey area and one POI to the next will view it differently, as will one judge to the next, even if your POI has no problem with you passing a 14 hour duty day that doesn't mean the FAA person who ramps you, or who's attention it is brought to will feel the same.
 
Thanks for the input. But so as not to hijack the thread any further, I'll just say that I disagree with your interpretation and I'll start a new thread over in the Pro Pilot category, because I think we're interpreting the reg differently (not saying you're wrong, I could very well be...but I don't want to hijack the thread).

Link to new thread...

In any case, we are always legal. The above was simply a ficticious example thats pretty similar to a lot of our trips.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone here not think that the United captain was one of the "up and coming" newbies years ago himself?

[/ QUOTE ]

Just for the sake of conversation I'll spin this the other way and suggest that the United captain might have been one of those types who've led privileged lives and bitched about everything to come their way. There are people who'll NEVER be happy with their lot in life, no matter how grand it is (many, many rich people are this way)--and there are people ALWAYS happy, even under the most meager circumstances. Generally, it's the people who've had everything handed to them who are the least content with life--as long as someone, somewhere has it better than they do, they're not happy; "glass half-empty" types. Think about what it takes to become a captain at United, think about all the "lucky breaks" one had to get early on, then consider whether that captain really busted his hump to get where he is, or coasted most of the way there.

As this pertains to most of us here, having to struggle through the tough times makes the good times that much sweeter.
 
Would any of you professional pilots that are so down on aviation careers actually think you would enjoy doing somthing else for a living? Seriously?

I think pretty much any job sucks, different jobs just have a different degree of sucking. Anytime I HAVE to go to work when I would much rather be doing somthing else I don't like it-period! I don't care what the job is! Even all the pro-atheletes, super-models, movie stars, and race car drivers seem to always find somthing to bitch and complain about their chosen career, but when it comes down to it- 98% of em sure as hell wouldn't want to do anything else for a living.

Would you professional pilots rather sit in a cubicle every single day, staring at a computer screen, listening to you boss bitch about the TPS reports? Or how about manual labor jobs, those are always fun, working your freakin ass off for 10 -12 hour shifts in extreme hot or cold weather, loading freight, throwing steel around, construction etc... only to come home and pass out on the couch because your so exausted you can hardly move. If you would, then go right ahead and enjoy! I've been there and done that, and I don't plan on spending the rest of my short life like that!

I have been fortunate enough to have been able to support myself snowboarding for the last several years until finally all my injuries caught up with me and put an end to that. Snowboarding, much like flying is somthing that I really enjoy doing, and I would do either regardless of a paycheck, but I'll tell ya, even that has it's downsides. There have been many, many frustrating misrable times when I was NOT happy even doing what I love, especially when the lousy paychecks come in, but anytime I would stop and think about the alternative, I would ALWAYS feel better. I would just think of all my friends that are stuck in dead end jobs slinging thousands of pounds of steel, or busting their ass all day doing some other kind of manual labor, or I would think of the ones staring at computer screens getting hounded by their bosses for one reason or another then all of a sudden I realize my job ain't so bad after all.

On the weekends I will usually get together with my friends, most are from all different types of careers, from mechanical engineers to pilots to general labor workers. All I hear about is how everyones job sucks and they wish they were doing somthing else- and would not recommend their career to anyone. I have yet to meet ANYONE who was 100% truely happy with all aspects of their profession. You show me someone who is 100% happy with what they do to support themselves and I will show you a liar.

Basically, for me personally, I don't think flying for a living can be that bad considering the alternitives, I don't care about the low pay, even an eventual 35K-45K a year in small town- northern Utah will get me by quite well. I know I will get tired of it, the novelty will wear off, and there is a LOT of other crap and BS to deal with just like ANY OTHER JOB, you pro-pilots aren't special. Sounds like some of the airline pilots think there job and life is just pure hell, look around you buddy, do you think everyone elses career is a bed of roses. I'm not even remotely expecting a glamorous job, with more money than I can count. All I want is a job that I can tolerate, without having to do manual labor, doing somthing that I can be proud of, so I can have enough money to support my racing/motorsports hobbies which is what truely makes me happy.

Bottom line- Work is called work for a reason, it's not supposed to be fun, just find somthing you can tolerate, and hopefully somewhat enjoy. All I can say is I expect the worst, and hope for the best, not much else you can do.

Sorry for the long post, It is not aimed at anyone specific, just the general negative attitude out there on this career. I'm just so tired of everyone complaining about what they do for a living! Unless your independently wealthy, you have to work, thats life, and it ain't always gonna be fun no-matter what you do! Quit complaining about all the negatives, it's not doing you or anyone else around you any good, try and focus on the positives!
tongue.gif
 
"Would any of you professional pilots that are so down on aviation careers actually think you would enjoy doing somthing else for a living? Seriously?"

I'm not down on aviation careers, but yeah, there is something I'd rather be doing besides flying. It just doesn't pay as well and in the overall scheme of things, being a pilot is the best choice.

There was I time where I dreamed of being a highly paid jet pilot. Now, I've lived that, and I could walk away knowing I did it with no second thoughts.

Flying is a great job. At times, it's a pain in the butt. Like many have mentioned, any job is a pain in the butt, at times...that's why they call it work. I've been away from home for over a month and it will be two months before I get back....my fault for being a commuter but that's the reality of the job. (I'm in training on a new plane)

I don't discourage anyone from the career. The reason I'm here is to tell it like it is...the good and the bad, so you all can be well informed.
 
Thanks DE727UPS, you and most of the other pro-pilots on the site have been really helpfull with telling both sides of the story, good and bad. Not just the negatives like some people.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Someone once wrote “All men lead lives of quiet desperation” You have to follow your dreams, but you can’t be pissed when that dream job turns out to be, well, just a job.

[/ QUOTE ]

Great post DTA. I think what you highlight is the very fact that we all have dreams of a job. But then again we all have dreams of vacations. A job is a job. It entails things that are work and once you become proficient with those thing monotony can be the norm. But, as you said, it is a job.

If our dreams turn into nightmares, why do we wish our dreams would come true? I guess it is because we love the act of dreaming.
 
lets take a look at why people hate work in general
...it inhibits their freedom ie. cubicle or office work
...it takes them away from family/friends/signifigant other
...it takes them away from their hobbies/passions
...pay sucks
...boss sucks

then lets look at why being a pilot still beats any job other than oil boy for the hawaiian tropic tour (watch dumb and dumber)
...talk about and office with a view!!
...yes it does take you away from the ones you love
...if you fly for a living then aviation is definitely or was your hobby and something you are [were] passionate about
...depends on where and how much you work, paying your dues is standard in any profession
...when you're flying, granted that you are the captain, YOU are the boss, of course when on the ground the company has got you ball the bal!$

I realize that I have never collected a paycheck for flying so feel free to correct me.

bottom line is no matter what you do in life you will find something wrong with it. its not really relevant but i was/am a lifeguard during summers at least, and i thought i had one of the best jobs (short of pilot!) i sat in the sun, checked out chicks, swam all day, hung out with all of my friends and occassionally guaranteed the safety of our patrons
smirk.gif
but after some time I would wake up in the morning and not be really happy to be going to work and the thing is that life is short and you gotta find something that you like and focus on the positives of your life. I hope I still have this positive outlook when i'm older. Happy working errr Flying!!!!
 
Unlike deups, although I could walk away and know that I "made it" from the ego perspective, I would not want to do that if I had any alternative. In fact, if I lost my ability to fly, I'd probably work in some other aspect of aviation. It is what drives me intellectually. I could see how that would be different if my involvement didn't extend beyond flying the line, though.
 
[ QUOTE ]
ILSStud,

I know this has nothing to do with this post, but do you fly out of Ft. Pierce or Stuart?

[/ QUOTE ]

Out of Fort Pierce (Ari Ben Aviator)...
 
Just for the sake of conversation I'll spin this the other way and suggest that the United captain might have been one of those types who've led privileged lives and bitched about everything to come their way. There are people who'll NEVER be happy with their lot in life, no matter how grand it is (many, many rich people are this way)--and there are people ALWAYS happy, even under the most meager circumstances. Generally, it's the people who've had everything handed to them who are the least content with life--as long as someone, somewhere has it better than they do, they're not happy; "glass half-empty" types. Think about what it takes to become a captain at United, think about all the "lucky breaks" one had to get early on, then consider whether that captain really busted his hump to get where he is, or coasted most of the way there.

As this pertains to most of us here, having to struggle through the tough times makes the good times that much sweeter.

[/ QUOTE ]

Truer words have not been spoken. Working hard and overcoming lifes trials and tribulations make everything that much more rewarding when your goal is accomplished.
cool.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
A crappy day of doing charter goes like this :

3:45am: Wake up
5:00am: Show time at airport
6:00am: Departure
9:00am: Arrival at destination
9:00-4pm: Sit around and wait...and wait...and wait.......
4:15pm: Phone rings...pax are going to be 2.5 more hours.
4:15-6:45pm: Wait some more...perhaps eat for the third time
6:45pm: Depart for home
9:45pm: Arrive at home base
11:30pm: Arrive back at my apartment


[/ QUOTE ]

oh gosh how familiar that sounds.

I think that when many people get up in the ranks, and feel threatened, these sort of feelings occur. Its important to think back and remember the real reason we are all still flying. If that reason is still current, keep going. If not, change to something else.

My goal in life: to not wake up at 40 with the stinging realization that I have wasted the past 20 years of my life.

Nothing to do with aviation at all.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Know what you're getting into (it ain't pretty or glamorous or dreamy), then do it because you love flying and will put up with the crap with a smile on your face.

[/ QUOTE ]
Absolutely. Best line in this whole thread.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top