Sad to hear....the reality?

it seems as though this discussion is getting somewhat biased; what do all of the corporate/fractional/freight/charter pilots here think?? it seems as though alot of airline pilots like to focus on the negatives of their career or at least the exriences shared here, what are the positives of your job??
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I think that some positives need to be brought into this discussion, i like to see both sides of the story so this is why i say this, not to sell my self the BS that these flight schools with their bright and cheery ad's in magazines. anyway lets the doom and gloom stories continue ::sarcasm::

Ryan
 
A crappy day of doing charter goes like this :

3:45am: Wake up
5:00am: Show time at airport
6:00am: Departure
9:00am: Arrival at destination
9:00-4pm: Sit around and wait...and wait...and wait.......
4:15pm: Phone rings...pax are going to be 2.5 more hours.
4:15-6:45pm: Wait some more...perhaps eat for the third time
6:45pm: Depart for home
9:45pm: Arrive at home base
11:30pm: Arrive back at my apartment

Thats pretty much the worst case scenario. We've done a few of these lately...not all that much fun, but its at least tolerable when you fly with someone that you really click with.

JohnH and Skibum caught us on a day like this, only it wasn't quite that long.

But, the positives are, that we're home almost every night. Pretty much all of our trips are out and back in the same day, and most days aren't quite as long as the one I described. A lot of times, we're out early, and home in time for dinner. Its really a perfect job for me at this point in my career, because its a good stepping stone to the kind of flying that I eventually want to do (fractional, or large jet charter company). I'm getting multi-turbine time, all kinds of cross country and instrument time, and I'm pretty much guaranteed to upgrade to PIC if I stick around.
 
I dunno, I like hearing the doom and gloom stories. Thats one great thing about this forum, its all coming from the horse's mouth. I'm an aspiring pilot and all this helps me prepare, and know what to expect. Still can't see myself doing anything other than flying. As for the job being tougher than us young jaded pilots expect. Tougher goals the better. I'm always that much more satisfied when I complish the tough ones, or have a damn(can I say that here?) good excuse when I dont.
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I have my own story regarding buzz killers. From my own uncle. When he found out that I wanted to become a pilot he shot me this long email telling me how I was in the wrong profession, and that I should become a lawyer, because thats where the real money is...yes thats right. He told me how many pilots were out of jobs, because you know how weekend warriors are right about everything (yes I'm aware he's right
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). I told him that there were also a lot of lawyers out fo jobs. Haven't talked since.
 
John H.,

WELL put!

Perhaps the best reply thus far.
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ESF: Is that the only positive of your job? Being home every night?
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(kidding)
 
I've had some pretty crappy jobs in the past, and I thought I would be stuck in theme parks forever. I almost was. There have been a couple of times at SWA that I've thought, "What the hell am I doing here? I hate throwing bags, and I'm surrounded by lazy morons." Then I see an RJ taxiing by and it hits me. I'm working here to put myself through school, so I can fly that for about the same amount of money I make throwing bags. And that's okay with me. I'm not looking to get rich off of this, I'm not looking for a job that I only work half the year, and I really don't care if I fly international or not. Personally, I'd probably be happy flying cargo for AirNet or someone until I die. After working dead end, depressing jobs for the past 10 years or so, I found something I ENJOY doing. Can I put up with BS, union contract negotiations, bitchy passengers, etc? Dude, I worked at Disney for 5 years. I dealt with all of that (you'd be amazed at the political backstabbing even at the lowest levels), AND I only got paid $6.50/hr to do it. Anytime things get too bad, I have to remind myself how bad things were then. I always feel better.

Another important thing to have are the friends and family you surround yourself with. There will be times you want to quit, and these people could make all the difference in the world. My dad has always wanted to fly, but he has severe cataracts. To relax after work, he would boot up MSFS every night. He did this from about the early 90s right up until his stroke two years ago. Anytime I get discouraged, he's always there to tell me how proud he is of how far I've come, even though I'm not even at the commercial stage yet. My wife is behind me 100%. She's put up with living on a shoestring budget, long days without seeing me b/c I'm working 16 hours a day, working 16 hour days herself, and putting off having kids until I'm at least out of school. With supporters like that, I sometimes feel like I can manage just about anything life throws at me.
 
Look, guys, it doesn't matter what kind of job you do, sooner or later, you're going to find something that you'll hate about it. What could be better than, say, playing a game you love for millions of dollars?

But even that has its downside. Now, there are lots of people who would give anything to be in that spot -- even to the point of destroying their bodies to get a shot by shooting steroids. But even the life of a pro athlete has its downside.
 
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Someone once wrote “All men lead lives of quiet desperation” You have to follow your dreams, but you can’t be pissed when that dream job turns out to be, well, just a job.

[/ QUOTE ]


I absolutely agree. Everyones view of their job comes from their own perspective. For a while I was considering going down the long road of the law, and forking over the money for that school. I did a lot of reading about the industry, and I've come to the conclusion that there are probably five 80 hour plus a week unhappy attorneys, to the one somewhat bored/weary/stagnant airline pilot.
 
I know a guy that was a lawyer in Louisana. Has a law degree and a PhD from LSU. Know what he does for a living? He teaches school here in Orlando and works on the ramp at SWA. The law industry is just saturated right now, and he doesn't want to take the time to find a job that would pay him what he's worth based on his experience and education.
 
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A crappy day of doing charter goes like this :

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Are you guys 135? If so you blew a couple regs there...if you are 91 then you aren't charter...see FalconCapt for definitions.

Even if you are 91 that is a bunch of crap...you should go to the hotel if you wait that long...we would in an instant.
 
What reg did they break? I agree with you in spirit but I need a reg to point to!

I ask because I can't find the final, exact ruling on the duty limits. I have been told that 14 hrs is a "hard" limit but I can't find anything that says it specifically. This has been a topic of discussion with my POI lately. He seems to think it is still "Legal to start, legal to finish."
 
First off, I know the difference between 91 and 135...but thanks for reminding me.
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Are you guys 135? If so you blew a couple regs there...

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Yes we are, and no we didn't.

There's only a 14-hr. limit on duty time if you go over the 10 hour limit on flight time (we fly 2 pilots). 135.267(c). Any other limits are on flight time only.

Even if there was, it wouldn't matter. Pax coming back 2 hours later than scheduled is 'circumstances beyond our control.'
 
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I say to all the unhappy professional pilots out there if you dislike your current job so much retire. A fresh new crop of enthused job seekers could take your spot and you can be free to persue any profession you see fit.

I know the industry is changing everyday, I know the moral of the airline pilots are down, and I know it wont be as easy for me as it was for you, but don't trash me because I want to have a flying career.

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Ahhhh, the naivete of youth........

You musta missed everything A300 wrote.

Oh well, you'll wake up someday.
 
The one thing I probably hate to hear pilots bitching about is pay.

Let's take Mesa, for sake of argument.

A number of pilots I talk to that fly for/have flown for Mesa hate the low pay. But what they can't figure out is that the reason they're getting low pay is pretty much their own fault. THEY took the job at Mesa (substitute Great Lakes/Skyway, etc as appropriate) knowing full well what the payscale was. In essence, they PROMOTED the concept of the company paying low wages! People like Mesa's CEO Ornstein see this and think "well, the pay must not be that bad, since I've got SO many guys working here, and a STACK of resumes of guys wanting to work here, or do MAPD, or PACE".

Want to take a stand on regional pay and improve it? Don't fly for regionals that pay squat.
 
ok Mike you want to stir the fire so be it!

Yes my first year at Mesa was not what you would call a financial success, but I upgraded after 20 months, and was an RJ captain after 3 1/2 years.

So I was in the high 50s by 4 years.

Growth and turnover can be your FRIENDS!!
 
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ok Mike you want to stir the fire so be it!

Yes my first year at Mesa was not what you would call a financial success, but I upgraded after 20 months, and was an RJ captain after 3 1/2 years.

So I was in the high 50s by 4 years.

Growth and turnover can be your FRIENDS!!

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I fully agree, John. It's just that when I stop over at MesaLounge occasionally to see if there's anything interesting, all I see is one big bitch-fest about this and that, but mostly over pay and how this group of guys screwed that pilot group and vice-versa.

I just want to tell those morons "You chose to work there knowing damn well the low wages of the company as well as the regionals!!!!!!!"

So quit your bitching.

And to be fair John, you can really substitute many different regionals in place of the Mesa name. I was just using it for sake of argument.
 
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Has anyone here put thought into the fact that they very well may turn into that United captain later in life?

Does anyone here not think that the United captain was one of the "up and coming" newbies years ago himself?

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If you look at life realistically, then you should realize that you may end up hating your job, just like this guy.

The thing that most people don't do however is do something about it when they get to that point.

You have to do a gut check every now and then. Do I still love this? If I could go do something else would I?

Most people just stick it out until they retire, but what good is that? Personally I'm not waiting until I'm 60+ to start enjoying life.

The people that do that are miserable, because they choose not to do anything to change their situation. On a side note: if you want a really interesting and amazingly realistic view of this read "The Art of Happiness at Work" by The Dali Lama. It's about 200 pages, I finished it in a day and I read slower than a senior citizen driving a caddy.

If you're miserable in your job, then take action! If you want more time with your family then take it! I hear you out there: that's not realistic, people can't just up and quit. Yes they certainly can. That's not to say that there aren't consequences, but even a prisoner can decide what he wants to do when he wakes up in the morning.

So I would say to that captain that he needs to stop feeling sorry for himself, and DO SOMETHING!!

That's my two cents.

Naunga
 
I think it depends a lot on the person and what you make of the career. I, for one, wouldn't do anything else. Sure, I've been pretty fortunate in terms of advancement and job security, but I have also done things that keep my career interesting. For example, I have never just "flown the line". As much as I enjoy doing that, I have always kept involved in doing extra work, generally technical involvement, from numerous technical committees and safety committees on the union side to working in flight standards, doing line checks and training on the company end.

I have spent time on National committees representing my organization at Industry meetings, spent time at the NTSB, DOT and FAA in D.C. working on projects, plus worked with ICAO and IATA. I have made contacts throughout the world, and have friends all over the planet.

In addition to that, I still do find some time to stay involved in GA.

Family life? I suppose it has suffered, although I am not sure that it wouldn't have anyway. Divorced now, but because she chose to leave the family, but now starting over again in that department. Finding that has not been a problem, and I would say that anyone in a job in the pay range that major airline pilots make would be spending a lot of time away from home -- most spend a lot more time away than I do, actually.

I think that most of this is the "grass is greener" syndrome, actually. The career is what you make of it.
 
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