Rumor Mill: SkyWest mins lowered
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B767Driver
New Member
meritflyer said:
It's a very seductive industry...one that gets in your blood...and presents an endless array of challenges, trials and tribulations. You have the opportunity to see the world, expand your horizons, meet thousands of people, and gain a viewpoint of the world, cultures and issues simply by compressing the world into a manageable piece of geography for four days...then get to take a week off. It's tough to pocket those experiences by driving downtown and back everyday. I can watch almost any sporting event on television and could tell you most of the establishments within a square block of the venue. For me, and most, that's a pretty neat thing to be able to possess.
Most of us are very competitive. It's an impossible industry to break into...and none of us want to fail. That challenge...to perform and thrive in a cut throat industry...presents an individual with the thrill of acheiving the impossible. If you hang around long enough you might make it.
How do you begin? With no time, no experience...there's no place to go and no progression toward the seductive goal of the good job. One way to start...take a job for low pay. Now you're on your way.
Unfortunately, we've let the entry level jobs creep up into bigger jets. That wouldn't really be too much of an issue if the pay grew accordingly. But when the commuters got jets...they basically flew them for turboprop rates to secure the flying. I believe that really killed the livelyhood for many, many pilots out there.
Those ultra competitive individuals who got stuck in the mid 50k pay range to captain a jet realized that, fiscally, they could be doing much better doing something else. I'm sure they all love the flying...but the allure of getting started in the industry via acceptability of low pay...became the bitter pill of career stagnation that frustrates so many now prompting career changes.
As Pilot602 introduced...the dynamics may be changing...and I hope so. I hate to see good, motivated, professional pilots stuck in such an unfair compensation arrangement. I hope the quality applicants are choosing other lines of work until the smaller jets can provide a better quality of life.
This is nothing new...just the sad facts.
Somebody, maybe Meritflyer, stated that the supply of pilots needed to be regulated via entrance exams and aptitude testing. I couldn't agree more. CPAs, JDs, MD, PhDs,...all require a baseline aptitude to commence training and then exit testing for issuance of certification. I wish our industry would adopt the same high standards.
aceflyley
New Member
I just received the employee newsletter yesterday and there is an article entitled "Pilot Recruitment" which includes the following quote:
"As we gear up for more growth and attempt to manage an increasing level of pilot attrition, we are facing another period when we'll hire many pilots over a relatively short period of time. With that in mind, we ask for your help in getting the word out to anyone that you know who may fit the profile and qualifications and who may desire to work for the best regional airline around. Letters of recommendation from SkyWest employees are very valuable in the selection process."
It also lists the mins as 1000-100 inst-100 multi in the same article. Don't know if they've lowred their mins, but sound like a good time to apply...
"As we gear up for more growth and attempt to manage an increasing level of pilot attrition, we are facing another period when we'll hire many pilots over a relatively short period of time. With that in mind, we ask for your help in getting the word out to anyone that you know who may fit the profile and qualifications and who may desire to work for the best regional airline around. Letters of recommendation from SkyWest employees are very valuable in the selection process."
It also lists the mins as 1000-100 inst-100 multi in the same article. Don't know if they've lowred their mins, but sound like a good time to apply...
meritflyer
Well-Known Member
B767Driver said:
Yes. I did say that. I meant every word. I truly believe that academic standards would really change the interface of professional pilots.
meyers9163
Well-Known Member
I do not know a lot about Skywest other than I have a friend of the family who flies for them. He's been there for about 20 years and for the 1st time in his years there he had two first. Recently they are running short on flight attendants as well as pilots. He had to fly a completely empty plane due to a lack of flight attendants. Secondly he was ready to take off during one of his trips and I dont understand how it happen or he did not catch on but he and his entire crew maxed out for hours for the month. They had to come back and change crews. Like I said he's been there 20 years or so and these are first for him while at Skywest. I know this has nothing to do with the subject but obviously they are having issues or as he says, "need to do some mad hiring" so who knows what will happen with their mins.
aceflyley said:
Just remember where all that growth is coming from....off the backs of ASA pilots! Don't believe the crap that management says...ours, yours, whoever. Keep your eyes on the bigger picture. It will only be a matter of time until JA comes and asks for cuts for you guys also.
mrivc211
Well-Known Member
cime_sp said:
I beleive the TA on the 70 was a pay cut. And continues to be with the delivery of the 90's.
More importantly, issues of QOL that are behind the scenes are rarely scene. Issues like vacation being reduced by the implementation of PBS, receiving only 9-10 hours of pay for 3-4 days of work for recurrent training, Forced flying under the guise of PBS again(in the past this would be paid jr man pay, now its just forced on your schedule as "coverage" flying saving the company from having to pay you jr man pay.
Since I've worked here, I've not seen one QOL improvement. Only benefits being taken away one by one.
Although on a good note, I did get to fly with my first CFI that soloed me (in a 152)the other day in the brasilia. It was pretty ironic. Our first flight was in a 152 together, me in the left seat, him in the right, and now again, me in the left and him in the right, however once again, he was the instructor/checkairmen.
After the flight we said it would be funny if we met again like this someday at a major. Aviation is a small world.
Cheechako
Well-Known Member
And as a result of that TA, Skywest was awarded with more flying, more airplanes, and therefore more movement. Without that, Omar, you would still be in the right seat of that Brasilia. In March you passed the two year mark, right? You just got a 4-7% pay increase, did you not? And you're still carrying only 30 passengers. So you're costing the company more while carrying the same amount of passengers. Doesn't sound like good business to me. . . I don't care what they call it, if it is more money in your pocket, it's a payraise.mrivc211 said:
Vacation has not been reduced one bit. We still accrue the same amount for each hour worked and you are still compensated for the weeks you don't work. Without PBS you had a strategy: bid a line that has less working during a vacation week to maximize time off and minimize vacation usage. Now you can set how much a day of vacation is worth. Time to develope a new strategy.mrivc211 said:
Recurrent training is still paid at 4 hours a day, right? How is that less?
Forced flying: CF is the code the PBS software uses when it puts a trip on your schedule after it's built a line, correct? How is this any different than crew planners having to reduce total days off on the hand-built lines to cover the flying needed pre-PBS? It was there, we just never knew it because we weren't a part of the line-building.
SEVEN YEARS I've been here and my QOL is better than it has ever been! My paycheck gets bigger every year and I'm actually working less. I've got 18 days off this month, haven't credited less than 90 hours in two years and I sleep in my bed more than I'm on the road.
Yes, I'm being a little defensive. I personally know some of the power players at Skywest and I know they're trying to make this airline work. This is a corporation trying to make the bottom line better and better which, in turn, affects my bottom line. Aside from the random human error and panic decisions, there has been nothing in my tenure that shows that Skywest, Inc. is out to screw the pilots to make a buck.
I guess this is what a Double Double gets you. . .
falconvalley
Absentee Dad of the OOTSK, Runner, Cat Frustrator
Recruiter to Head Recruiter at my company: "We're having troube finding qualified applicants, now."
In our part of the industry, that's unheard of. My interpretation of that statement is that looking through applications before was easy. Take a "stack" and look at the numbers, take the ones that meet the competetive requirements and then take the ones that meet the absolute minimum.
Now, they are having to dig a little to find enough people to call. That's probably because the amount of people being hired is more than how many people are keeping current applications on file. It could also mean that enough low time people have washed out of training lately to cause concern.
It looks to me that the lull after 9-11 is catching up to us. However, the sky is not falling. I just wish the lowered mins didn't mean a mad rush for the door of an RJ. That brings along a generation of lower quality pilots, partly thanks to the intense campaign of "Get a job flying for the airlines before Christmas!!11" and the boneheads that decide building hours for that right seat is more important than actually doing their job, like teaching??!!
Man, where am I going with this?? I'd better go get a beer and relax for a while. My blood pressure's getting too high...
In our part of the industry, that's unheard of. My interpretation of that statement is that looking through applications before was easy. Take a "stack" and look at the numbers, take the ones that meet the competetive requirements and then take the ones that meet the absolute minimum.
Now, they are having to dig a little to find enough people to call. That's probably because the amount of people being hired is more than how many people are keeping current applications on file. It could also mean that enough low time people have washed out of training lately to cause concern.
It looks to me that the lull after 9-11 is catching up to us. However, the sky is not falling. I just wish the lowered mins didn't mean a mad rush for the door of an RJ. That brings along a generation of lower quality pilots, partly thanks to the intense campaign of "Get a job flying for the airlines before Christmas!!11" and the boneheads that decide building hours for that right seat is more important than actually doing their job, like teaching??!!
Man, where am I going with this?? I'd better go get a beer and relax for a while. My blood pressure's getting too high...
I think it's important to remember that the additional flying didn't come out of thin air. The TA wasn't the 'end-all-be-all' magnate of efficiency and showers of wealth, it was pretty much an abhoration on some levels like the doofus stuff the large airlines have been signing since 9/11.
Major airlines give up crap to protect pensions, smaller airlines give up crap to get airplanes and faster upgrade times.
Before the big Skywest parade starts with clowns and balloons, don't be surprised if you see a few former 737-200 pilots and ASA CRJ-700 pilots along the route that aren't dancing along with the music.
Yes, it can be exciting as the paycheck grows and there's a higher gross weight on the aircraft, but when the music stops, like it always does in the business, it's a little late to learn that all of the promises of growth, upgrades times, etc are a carrot dangled in front of a pilot group.
You never know when another competing regional is going to sign an RFP for even lower rates and those aircraft will be shifted to that operation, much like they were shifted to SKYW.
Keep in mind, Comair was going to take over the world less than 24 months ago, made phat loot and couldn't run new hire ground schools fast enough.
I'm not trying to be negative, but perhaps a little wakeup call might be in order?
Major airlines give up crap to protect pensions, smaller airlines give up crap to get airplanes and faster upgrade times.
Before the big Skywest parade starts with clowns and balloons, don't be surprised if you see a few former 737-200 pilots and ASA CRJ-700 pilots along the route that aren't dancing along with the music.
Yes, it can be exciting as the paycheck grows and there's a higher gross weight on the aircraft, but when the music stops, like it always does in the business, it's a little late to learn that all of the promises of growth, upgrades times, etc are a carrot dangled in front of a pilot group.
You never know when another competing regional is going to sign an RFP for even lower rates and those aircraft will be shifted to that operation, much like they were shifted to SKYW.
Keep in mind, Comair was going to take over the world less than 24 months ago, made phat loot and couldn't run new hire ground schools fast enough.
I'm not trying to be negative, but perhaps a little wakeup call might be in order?
meritflyer
Well-Known Member
SKYW has decent officers running the company. I've had the chance to sit down with Jerry Atkin (family friend) and Hyrum Smith (board member) on multiple occasions. I think they really want SKYW to succeed on every level for every employee.
SKYW has worked very hard to get where they are considering Jerry and his uncle tried to literally give the company away in their early days to a potential buyer.. yes, they tried to give it to him just to get out from underneath it. He obviously wouldnt even take a free company. So they were left with no choice than to build a solid company with good employees.
SKYW has worked very hard to get where they are considering Jerry and his uncle tried to literally give the company away in their early days to a potential buyer.. yes, they tried to give it to him just to get out from underneath it. He obviously wouldnt even take a free company. So they were left with no choice than to build a solid company with good employees.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not making a value judgement on the corporation, it's pilots or anything about it because I don't work there.
Let's leave the corporate mumbo jumbo to the Jim Jubaks and the Jim Cramers of the financial world.
We're pilots.
We're labor.
We need to hang together, or certainly we'll hang seperately. Ask any Comair, Trans States or ExpressJet pilot.
Let's leave the corporate mumbo jumbo to the Jim Jubaks and the Jim Cramers of the financial world.
We're pilots.
We're labor.
We need to hang together, or certainly we'll hang seperately. Ask any Comair, Trans States or ExpressJet pilot.
Alchemy
Well-Known Member
Concessions for growth are killing everyone, and they don't work. Just ask the AWAC pilots.
You sell everyone out when agree to that kind of thing, ESPECIALLY at the regional level, where compensation especially need be rising, not falling. Personally I'd rather have an 8 year upgrade than agree to a pay cut so I could upgrade next month. Regional pilots need to realize that spending between 5 and 10 years at this level before moving on, if you are able to move on, will probably be the norm due to the scope erosion that has occured at "the majors". Agreeing to fly larger airplanes for lower payrates only exacerbates the problem.
My 2 cents, and I don't mean this as a dig at skywest, it's a fine company with great employees by all accounts.
You sell everyone out when agree to that kind of thing, ESPECIALLY at the regional level, where compensation especially need be rising, not falling. Personally I'd rather have an 8 year upgrade than agree to a pay cut so I could upgrade next month. Regional pilots need to realize that spending between 5 and 10 years at this level before moving on, if you are able to move on, will probably be the norm due to the scope erosion that has occured at "the majors". Agreeing to fly larger airplanes for lower payrates only exacerbates the problem.
My 2 cents, and I don't mean this as a dig at skywest, it's a fine company with great employees by all accounts.
meritflyer
Well-Known Member
Doug Taylor said:
I am not a professional pilot however it would appear that pro pilots would make more head way if they were more involved in corporate mumbo jumbo instead of taking the "large, organized labor" approach..
I dont know.. just a thought.
Theoretically. However, if an airline was a big cruise ship, the middle level managers, CEO's, COO's, etc are on the bridge and all of the pilots are in a holding cell near the engine room.
You can think like the ship's captain if you'd like, but the engines run loud, you're six decks below the bridge and they honestly don't give a crap what you think as long as there are warm bodies in seats.
Do not, under any circumstances, confuse your control of a 200,000 lbs aircraft and ultimate responsibility to your crew and passengers with management giving a crap what you think -- even if it'll make everyone's job easier and earn a crapload of money for the corporate.
Seriously.
You can think like the ship's captain if you'd like, but the engines run loud, you're six decks below the bridge and they honestly don't give a crap what you think as long as there are warm bodies in seats.
Do not, under any circumstances, confuse your control of a 200,000 lbs aircraft and ultimate responsibility to your crew and passengers with management giving a crap what you think -- even if it'll make everyone's job easier and earn a crapload of money for the corporate.
Seriously.