surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Oh yes, oops - Taxi too. 
Retired NWA pilot sums it up.
- Thread starter Socal321
- Start date
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
I was one of the few guys who filled out the computer flight plan (not sure what you call it now that you guys got rid of WorldFlight) and did frequent position reports, but that never stopped me from enjoying the "business section of the FOM," if you know what I mean.
I do that if it's a long flight, I'm bored and my FO is a seat warmer with the conversational skills of a turnip. We've still got WorldFlight.....for now. The Delta printers jack it up, though. Huge, 3 inch spaces spread throughout the release. Makes what is normally a long, long release even longer and harder to get info out of. They keep teasing us with going to the Aerodata system like the -900 guys have (which means no more waiting for numbers to take off), but I think they're in a bidding war to get cheap software again.....
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
Did you guys already lose the TPs? Having the MELs on your "release" page? etc.... The Aerodata is cool but the release looks like crap. Add to that when fueling, the line guy has to know (or the person telling him) that the fuel listed on top is TAKEOFF fuel, and the actual pre-blockout fuel is on the bottom of each release page.
DavCo
Well-Known Member
I didn't read all the posts, just the first and last pages so sorry if this is a repeat...
I have talked to lots of pilots of all different ages and what I have noticed is that the older pilots seem to remember the airlines in a different way. It was different back then, alot different. The younger guys don't have anything to really compare the current aviation industry to so they tend to have a more upbeat view on things...
I wonder what my take on the whole aviation industry will be when I retire.
I have talked to lots of pilots of all different ages and what I have noticed is that the older pilots seem to remember the airlines in a different way. It was different back then, alot different. The younger guys don't have anything to really compare the current aviation industry to so they tend to have a more upbeat view on things...
I wonder what my take on the whole aviation industry will be when I retire.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
While I don't know all "younger guys," I grew up with three pilots around me. Two eastern, one Delta. Down the road were two air traffic controllers as well, and then my father tossed into the group as an A&P for Delta.
Through the countless stories with the aforementioned gentlemen, I think I have a pretty good image of what it was like prior to deregulation and post 9/11.
The profession has, to put it mildly, taken a huge spiral dive crashing into the ground. Which is all the more reason to strive to protect what we have and to at the very least put a strong effort into returning what we have lost.
Returning to what was lost will be the big challenge, IMHO. I still remember all the talk back in the late '80s of the then-new "B-Scale" pays coming out, and how the era of the "$350,000 salary United 747-400 international Captain" was finally at an end, and B-scale was going to be bottom end pay. It seems today that with what pay, for example, has become; the former B-Scale is great money in comparison. It's now, what, something akin to an G-scale...if it were going to be compared in that way? What I'm trying to say is that as far as what things have become to date, that many in the industry now see this as "the norm" and hence just accept it...or are simply apathetic; when they should be doing all they can to make the effort to reverse that trend, and work towards what once was. I think the challenge will be educating those with the "the norm" mentality on the history of the profession and the potential it truly has, and to not simply accept it as it is now.
Hopefully that's the direction it'll head.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
You Sir, see the principle problem to the downward spiral.
Apathy and passive behavior. Especially when less than 25% of a pilot group votes on a measure put out to them by their union, or when less than 55% of a pilot group votes on a TA.
Would be nice if some of our peers also recognized it and decide to join the team to try to do something about it.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
No, we've still got the TPs.....and I love it. I wish Delta would keep those around, but I'm not gonna hold my breathe. According to MM (was in recurrent today), they're shopping 3 different dispatch software packages right now, the LIDO, Sabre and whatever United is using. He's pushing to keep the LIDO dispatch software and Aerodata. According to the contract with NWA, they pay (paid?) for our dispatching and weather information. So, now that passes to Delta. Well, Delta isn't keeping Worldflight around, so there's nothing to stop them from saying "Well, we only wanna pay for Donny's Discount Dispatching, so if you want these other systems, you'll have to pay the difference."
Trip7
Well-Known Member
The "downward spiral" will only last a couple more years. When the age 65 effect goes away pilots will have the leverage they've been waiting for. We already got a taste of it at the regional level pre-age 65 when Comair wanted to raise 1st yr pay to match 2nd yr. Supply and demand. The market will correct itself. Our time is coming.....
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
The downward spiral has been going strong since about 1984 when b-scale wages first showed up, and I don't think that's gonna change anytime soon.
You're flying for something like G-scale wages but happy as a pig in slop.
Trip7
Well-Known Member
I'm extremely grateful to be in the position I am at 23 yrs old with this low of time in one of the worst economic downturns in US history.
So yes, I'm happy as a pig
Downward spiral has been happening since 1984? What about the huge contracts that United and Delta signed in what..2000 was it? The one when 777 Capts were making 300something an hr
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
What exactly are you doing to make sure that when "our" time comes that we can actually reap the largest return possible with the significant increase in negotiating capital?
Or have you even thought that far out?
It'd be one thing if you were taking an active role in trying to establish a foundation for your little philosophy, but otherwise it's empty rhetoric from someone who - for all intense purposes - doesn't really care.
I know the non-rev benefits and trips to the beach on a semi-permanent basis are totally nice, but I'm a bit more concerned with reality and making sure we don't let down those who came before us. You know, in actually protecting the profession instead of pressing pause for five years or longer.
The time is now to establish the best course of action for the future.
What would the best course of action be to accomplish that goal ?
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Naw, there ain't nothin' wrong with liking what you do. Heck, if you don't you'll be miserable.
But to have your head shoved so far into the sand that you start to think you're an ostrich? That doesn't do anybody any good.
Do regional rates, for the most part, suck? Yup. Are the work rules all horrible? Nope. ExpressJet and Air Wisky have better work rules than Continental or Airways, oddly enough, and that's a big part of a contract. Do the pay rates at the bottom end need to come up? Yup.
But sitting there and acting like it's going to happen on it's own? Well that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
I'll agree with that babycakes. I guess I'd like to see an upbeat attitude with the motive to constantly improve the industry. From the day I stepped in the door at Airnet I tried to improve that place. Unfortunetly most of that went as far as a few policies and a few JS agreements. It's too bad the new closers (owners) devoted most of their energy on shrinking a business rather than growing and as a result ran me out of town.
I hope I can get involved at the new place to help improve where I can. I recognize that the niche this place is in is pretty cut throat and only the under cutters survive. I do believe enhanced communication and policies that don't hurt the company but will surely improve the moral of pilots are needed.
But one thing I noticed with the old place, if you absolute hate your job and can't wait to leave there is no sense of pride to improve where you are. I think you need to see things from higher pay scales perspective, you have to understand them to work with em.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Who's downing him for enjoying his job?
I know I've said it before, but I suppose it needs repeating - you should enjoy your line of work.
But, you shouldn't be ignorant about the reality of the conditions of your employment.
Considering the context in which I said the quote you selected.
When you go to war, do you begin training for the war on Day 1 of combat, or do you train years well prior to any war knowing that one day you might have to put your training to use?
Begin training for the battle today to reap the benefits of tomorrow.
thehobbit
Well-Known Member
What is that supposed to mean? What kind of training is an airline pilot supposed to learn to better their contracts? Other than walking out the door as a group, how are you going to bring about better pay scales and QOL?
pipepatrol
New Member
:yeahthat:
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