Retired NWA pilot sums it up.

[fender_jag]

Word.

No, the career isn't all guns and roses

"All we need is just a little patience"

Seriously.

 

[mjg407]

I think it's safe to put this under the "chain mail" hoaxes category.

 

[mikecweb]

Can I have that five minutes of my life back.
Even IF this was a true "retired NWA pilot" which would be a stretch as some have pointed out, give anyone 10 minutes to poorly write an email about the crap associated with their job and it'll look something similar.
I've definitely done my share of complaining but I don't know how people stay at the same places and complain non-stop to each other. Something I'm trying to get used to at the new place.

 

[KLB]

Can I have that five minutes of my life back.
Even IF this was a true "retired NWA pilot" which would be a stretch as some have pointed out, give anyone 10 minutes to poorly write an email about the crap associated with their job and it'll look something similar.
I've definitely done my share of complaining but I don't know how people stay at the same places and complain non-stop to each other. Something I'm trying to get used to at the new place.

You won't hear much from me. I'm more of the exception to the rule though. It also varies from base to base.

 

[mikecweb]

You won't hear much from me. I'm more of the exception to the rule though. It also varies from base to base.

It's pretty bad though, just saying. I'm mean for freight trash there are a lot of petty complaints. Guys at Airnet and AMF really have not a whole lot to complain about compared to a lot of freight places. If someone has a valid BS thing happen to them I'll hear them out but if it's just bitching because you're bored you're just an unhappy person.

 

[MikeD]

It's pretty bad though, just saying. I'm mean for freight trash there are a lot of petty complaints. Guys at Airnet and AMF really have not a whole lot to complain about compared to a lot of freight places. If someone has a valid BS thing happen to them I'll hear them out but if it's just bitching because you're bored you're just an unhappy person.

But pilots are kind of akin to soldiers......they could be sitting atop a pot of gold, and still find something to complain about.

 

[Socal321]

Who cares if he retired or quit. A lot of the stuff on there about the industry is true. We can put our heads in the sand all we want.

 

[KLB]

It's pretty bad though, just saying. I'm mean for freight trash there are a lot of petty complaints. Guys at Airnet and AMF really have not a whole lot to complain about compared to a lot of freight places. If someone has a valid BS thing happen to them I'll hear them out but if it's just bitching because you're bored you're just an unhappy person.

Well once you've been around and get to know everyone a little better, you can tell them to "quit your bitchin', suck it up, and it's your turn to by the round!" I know I do!

 

[Trip7]

Who cares if he retired or quit. A lot of the stuff on there about the industry is true. We can put our heads in the sand all we want.

Actually our heads are still in Utopia. Yours is still in the sand. Sure there are some problems in the industry, but we're not about to wallow in self pity and proclaim how much better working security at Toys R Us is and quit.

 

[SpiceWeasel]

Actually our heads are still in Utopia. Yours is still in the sand. Sure there are some problems in the industry, but we're not about to wallow in self pity and proclaim how much better working security at Toys R Us is and quit.

Don't get me wrong, "bro", I love the job, and it is utopia when I am flying.

Here is wake up call number one gajillion from Apex Airlines.

Flight Ops Memo
Date: 4/21/09
To: Slaves
From: SlaveMaster
Re: Extension Assignments
AcmeCo MEMO # gajillion
There have recently been numerous questions arising regarding the interpretation of extensions involving segments that are purely added flying and extensions that are rescheduled assignments to line holders. We hope to clear up some of the confusion about these assignments by covering some common misconceptions below. Extensions assignments are governed by LOA 05-03 of the Pilot Contract. One of the largest misconceptions about this LOA is the difference between (A) extensions involving segments that are purely added flying and (B) extensions that are rescheduled assignments that delay your release time beyond 3 hours. Just because the rescheduled assignment delays your release time in domicile beyond 3 hours does not make it an extension that can be declined. This is especially true if the crewmember is the only one available at the location the reassignment begins. The reassignment will be considered ended upon the pilot’s return to domicile by the end of the calendar day. This reassignment has no limit on the number of legs it can accommodate. Example 1: A DTW based pilot that is a line-holder is in PHL and is expected to fly (or DH) back to DTW and be released at 1400. He is given a schedule change to fly a transition flight PHL-CVG-DTW and is now scheduled to be released at 1800. This is an example of a rescheduled assignment that is covered under section 25.F.8.e.2 as revised by LOA 05-03 and not an extension with “purely added flying”. This assignment would be eligible for premium pay (150%) for all time crossing the three hour extension mark, but is not considered an extension that can be refused. Example 2: A DTW based pilot that is a line-holder is in MEM and is expected to fly (or DH) back to DTW and be released at 1400. He is given a schedule change to fly a transition flight MEM-CVG-DTW and is now scheduled to be released at 1800. Just as
in Example 1, this is an example of a rescheduled assignment that is covered under section 25.F.8.e.2 as revised by LOA 05-03 and not an extension with “purely added flying”. This assignment would be eligible for premium pay (150%) for all time crossing the three hour extension mark, but is not considered an extension that can be refused. Example 3: The same DTW based pilot that is a line-holder is in MEM and is expected
to fly (or DH) back to DTW, whether directly or with an interim stop, and planned to be released at 1400. He is given a schedule change that has him flying MEM-TUL-MEMCVG-DTW and is now scheduled to be released at 2000. This is another example of a rescheduled assignment that is covered under section 25.F.8.e.2 as revised by LOA 05-03 and again not an extension with “purely added flying”. This assignment would be eligible for premium pay (150%) for all time crossing the three hour extension mark, but is not considered an extension that can be refused.
For the ability to decline an extension, you must look under Extension Segments (25.F.8.f of LOA 05-03). As referenced, the line holder’s ability to decline an extension only involves extension segments, which are defined as “segments purely added as additional flying”. In the context of the discussions that led to the development of LOA 05-03, this involved a line holder who upon completion of his scheduled assignments was given an additional out and back. Example: A MSP based pilot that is a line-holder arrives in MSP at the end of his/her trip and has a MSP-DLH turn added to his/her schedule. This added turn delays the pilot’s release time in MSP by 2 hours. This is considered an extension that can be declined,
paid at 150% and is governed under section 8.f of LOA 05-03. As for extensions involving reserves, a reserve pilot is only considered to be extended when the assignment takes them into a day off. A reserve pilot’s ability to decline such extension is referenced in 25.H.11 of the LOA. Premium pay (150%) will apply to all flying done on the day off. If a reserve pilot is extended into his day off, he/she will be scheduled to operate no more than 3 legs back to his domicile. However should the
reserve pilot transition to any domicile before the third leg, the pilot will be scheduled to operate or deadhead back to his domicile from that domicile. If scheduled to only deadhead back to his domicile, the reserve pilot may be released at the transitioning domicile if he so desires.
As always, please contact your base management with any questions.

I'd love to understand what the hell this thing is telling me, but there is SO much wordiness to it that I get lost after "numerous questions". I think it means we've got no life outside of work, and they know it, so they take advantage of it....

sadface for no flying. 16 days without a trip. I'm not even the worst off. I know someone who has gone at laest 59 days without so much as a call.

Why do you think I'm on here so much?!?! :laff:

 

[ctab5060X]

Don't get me wrong, "bro", I love the job, and it is utopia when I am flying.

Here is wake up call number one gajillion from Apex Airlines.



I'd love to understand what the hell this thing is telling me, but there is SO much wordiness to it that I get lost after "numerous questions". I think it means we've got no life outside of work, and they know it, so they take advantage of it....

sadface for no flying. 16 days without a trip. I'm not even the worst off. I know someone who has gone at laest 59 days without so much as a call.

Why do you think I'm on here so much?!?! :laff:

:banghead:

Way too much wordiness, not enough paragraphs.

And please. Keep it simple... mmkay?

 

[Socal321]

Actually our heads are still in Utopia. Yours is still in the sand. Sure there are some problems in the industry, but we're not about to wallow in self pity and proclaim how much better working security at Toys R Us is and quit.

How about a real job? A college grad today or even a plumber will have it a whole lot better than a crj700/900 FO at a regional. Definitely better QOL. No, they're not going to have a view at 30K, poor folks. But they will have their BMW and house payments while you're trying to decide between the bottom or top bunk. You may refuse to believe it but it's reality. Burying our head in the sand and saying I don't care that this industry is in the toilet because I like the view from the cockpit won't make it any better. That is what the airlines want and it's very obvious that pilots will literally work for food so the last decade they have gotten the upper hand. The post that the NWA CA made is a another perspective to the rosy colored glasses, nothing more.

 

[Trip7]

How about a real job? A college grad today or even a plumber will have it a whole lot better than a crj700/900 FO at a regional. Definitely better QOL. No, they're not going to have a view at 30K, poor folks. But they will have their BMW and house payments while you're trying to decide between the bottom or top bunk. You may refuse to believe it but it's reality. Burying our head in the sand and saying I don't care that this industry is in the toilet because I like the view from the cockpit won't make it any better. That is what the airlines want and it's very obvious that pilots will literally work for food so the last decade they have gotten the upper hand. The post that the NWA CA made is a another perspective to the rosy colored glasses, nothing more.

Better QOL? Are you kidding? My accountant friends fresh outta Auburn are working 80 hr work weeks for a couple thousand more a year than me(same pay when I include my 2nd job) while I'm barely working on reserve for the same pay they're getting. Not to mention I take more trips in one month than they do all year. 1st year pay sucks, but that excuse is over now that airlines haven't hired in a while.

All my friends I know, nurses, logistics, corporate peeps at Coca Cola, I'm making within +/-5,000 of all of them. And they're at work twice as much as I am....

 

[Gonzo]

Better QOL? Are you kidding? My accountant friends fresh outta Auburn are working 80 hr work weeks for a couple thousand more a year than me(same pay when I include my 2nd job) while I'm barely working on reserve for the same pay they're getting. Not to mention I take more trips in one month than they do all year. 1st year pay sucks, but that excuse is over now that airlines haven't hired in a while.

All my friends I know, nurses, logistics, corporate peeps at Coca Cola, I'm making within +/-5,000 of all of them. And they're at work twice as much as I am....

The point is most of what was in the e-mail was true.
In about two months I will be back at my old job make 70K + expenses (about 2K a month car, cell, internet, and food) and will hate every day I am back.

 

[dnb253]

i like the line about hard work time in the air... flying once you get in the groove is so much easier than plumbing... id much rather be chillin at fl390 drinkin a coffee and reading a newspaper for an hour or two than slaving underneath a rotting kitchen sink...

 

[Socal321]

Better QOL? Are you kidding? My accountant friends fresh outta Auburn are working 80 hr work weeks for a couple thousand more a year than me(same pay when I include my 2nd job) while I'm barely working on reserve for the same pay they're getting. Not to mention I take more trips in one month than they do all year. 1st year pay sucks, but that excuse is over now that airlines haven't hired in a while.

All my friends I know, nurses, logistics, corporate peeps at Coca Cola, I'm making within +/-5,000 of all of them. And they're at work twice as much as I am....

lol wow, how much do you make dude? Looking at the ASA scale, forget about 1st year, assuming senior FO the most you will make is about 35K for being gone, or in your case, on duty on a couch for about 70% of the days of the month or 70% of the year. You friends will be home at the end of the night every night and will have stability that you will NEVER have along with the money. 35K is nothing unless you live in rural Mississippi very nice compensation for being gone most of the month and year and being a pro airline pilot. Man I got to join ASA when they hire again, must be some place................

 

[Socal321]

i like the line about hard work time in the air... flying once you get in the groove is so much easier than plumbing... id much rather be chillin at fl390 drinkin a coffee and reading a newspaper for an hour or two than slaving underneath a rotting kitchen sink...

No kidding, if I was an airline exec reading this stuff I would go for min wage the next contract. If you keep saying to yourself how easy I've got it and you probably do if right now you're on reserve on a couch, but how much do you really value your work? Enough for 80 100 200k per year? Or whatever keeps you flying?

 

[Cptnchia]

No kidding, if I was an airline exec reading this stuff I would go for min wage the next contract.

Don't fool yourself, they already try that now.

 

[kellwolf]

I'd love to understand what the hell this thing is telling me, but there is SO much wordiness to it that I get lost after "numerous questions".

Translation: "We're not really overstaffed and we didn't really need to displace those 30 CAs, but we need to save some $$$ to save our butts from all the losses we're taking from investing in auction rate securities. As a result, we're having to extend people. You can't refuse an extension, despite the fact that the contract says you can once a month. If you get a schedule change that has you flying 6 hours after you're scheduled to be done, it's not a "extension," it's a schedule change, so you can't refuse is. Even though it might SEEM like those three extra legs are "additional flying," which according to the contract would be an extension, they're not. Bottom line, we screwed the pooch on our staffing model and now are forcing everyone else to fix our mistakes."

 

[ctab5060X]

Translation: "We're not really overstaffed and we didn't really need to displace those 30 CAs, but we need to save some $$$ to save our butts from all the losses we're taking from investing in auction rate securities. As a result, we're having to extend people. You can't refuse an extension, despite the fact that the contract says you can once a month. If you get a schedule change that has you flying 6 hours after you're scheduled to be done, it's not a "extension," it's a schedule change, so you can't refuse is. Even though it might SEEM like those three extra legs are "additional flying," which according to the contract would be an extension, they're not. Bottom line, we screwed the pooch on our staffing model and now are forcing everyone else to fix our mistakes."

:yup: