Airdale
Well-Known Member
I agree with your ideas for the regs RTF, but in all honesty, would it have changed the result of 3407? I don't think it would have. It seems to me that 3407 is being used as a platform to lobby for some changes that may not have actually altered the outcome of this flight. In no way am I against that and I think its a great opportunity to bring to light some serious issues in the industry.
I too have experienced the reduced rest overnights and so forth. It was dealt with better at Republic then it was at Colgan, but none the less, reduced rest overnights suck. BUT, I can not recall more then an instance or two, where I was actually fatigued from company scheduled rest. I had nights here and there with 6 hours of sleep. But they were never back to back (at Republic) and I always had an opportunity to "catch up" on rest during the pairing. I do think the rest requirements should be changed as you suggested but along with that I think something needs to be done about IDLE sit time in airports. I have been more fatigued from 4hr sits with no crew room than a reduced rest overnight. I also think what is much more important than changing the rest requirements, is to change duty time requirements. 16 hour duty day? Insane. 14hrs? Still too much. A 16hr duty day, means you are idle in airports, uncomfortable in a uniform and unable to "relax" for at least 6-8hrs. More fatigue comes from duty days in my opinion. Just because we aren't flying for 16hrs, doesn't mean we should be in uniform and on the job for 16. I think that is the most ridiculous crap about this job. We should work normal hours like normal people. 8-10 hour days max. I know very few people working normal jobs where they are "at work" for 16 hours. Thats absurd.
Despite all of these issues, I still don't believe 3407 would have been prevented with those changes alone. As mentioned before, common sense can not be governed.
Younger pilots need to have responsibility. Plain and simple. You can not expect to pull off a cross country commute, sleep in a crew room for a few hours and then have the nerve and audacity to take lives into your hands. No no no no!!! When you are scheduled to fly, you should not be sending text messages when you should be sleeping! "But its the companies fault because I have to commute!". No, its your fault for not exercising your own good judgement. If you can not do that commute and work well rested the next day, than you need to do something. Commute earlier or find another job.
I would rather work at home depot, than do a commute that is going to jeopardize my performance behind the controls of an aircraft. Why? I would rather not kill myself or someone else. This is why pilots need better pay. How can you expect to live/work/commute on $16k a year? You couldn't even move to your base on that salary. This forces people to do these commutes. Sooner or later, you're going to be flying fatigued and you're affraid to call off. Thats just the first link the accident chain.
When I commuted at Colgan, it was a 3-3 1/2 hour drive. I certainly could have drove in the same morning of a trip for a 7-8-9 o'clock show, but I always drove in the night before so that I could get the proper rest. Yet, I know plenty of pilots who get up at 3am, drive 3-4 hours and report for a 14hr day. I flew with a Captain who did just that and was half falling asleep until we had a 4 hour sit and slept in a crew room. That is just ridiculous. He did it to save money. I flew in the night before and had 14 hours until show time in a hotel.
The solution goes both ways. Companies need to take better care of their pilots and pilots need to exercise better judgement.
I will not comment on the stall accident and whether or not it was rest related. But this was a pilot error incident and I'm sure the chain of events is long. But something needs to be changed to prevent these accidents.
I too have experienced the reduced rest overnights and so forth. It was dealt with better at Republic then it was at Colgan, but none the less, reduced rest overnights suck. BUT, I can not recall more then an instance or two, where I was actually fatigued from company scheduled rest. I had nights here and there with 6 hours of sleep. But they were never back to back (at Republic) and I always had an opportunity to "catch up" on rest during the pairing. I do think the rest requirements should be changed as you suggested but along with that I think something needs to be done about IDLE sit time in airports. I have been more fatigued from 4hr sits with no crew room than a reduced rest overnight. I also think what is much more important than changing the rest requirements, is to change duty time requirements. 16 hour duty day? Insane. 14hrs? Still too much. A 16hr duty day, means you are idle in airports, uncomfortable in a uniform and unable to "relax" for at least 6-8hrs. More fatigue comes from duty days in my opinion. Just because we aren't flying for 16hrs, doesn't mean we should be in uniform and on the job for 16. I think that is the most ridiculous crap about this job. We should work normal hours like normal people. 8-10 hour days max. I know very few people working normal jobs where they are "at work" for 16 hours. Thats absurd.
Despite all of these issues, I still don't believe 3407 would have been prevented with those changes alone. As mentioned before, common sense can not be governed.
Younger pilots need to have responsibility. Plain and simple. You can not expect to pull off a cross country commute, sleep in a crew room for a few hours and then have the nerve and audacity to take lives into your hands. No no no no!!! When you are scheduled to fly, you should not be sending text messages when you should be sleeping! "But its the companies fault because I have to commute!". No, its your fault for not exercising your own good judgement. If you can not do that commute and work well rested the next day, than you need to do something. Commute earlier or find another job.
I would rather work at home depot, than do a commute that is going to jeopardize my performance behind the controls of an aircraft. Why? I would rather not kill myself or someone else. This is why pilots need better pay. How can you expect to live/work/commute on $16k a year? You couldn't even move to your base on that salary. This forces people to do these commutes. Sooner or later, you're going to be flying fatigued and you're affraid to call off. Thats just the first link the accident chain.
When I commuted at Colgan, it was a 3-3 1/2 hour drive. I certainly could have drove in the same morning of a trip for a 7-8-9 o'clock show, but I always drove in the night before so that I could get the proper rest. Yet, I know plenty of pilots who get up at 3am, drive 3-4 hours and report for a 14hr day. I flew with a Captain who did just that and was half falling asleep until we had a 4 hour sit and slept in a crew room. That is just ridiculous. He did it to save money. I flew in the night before and had 14 hours until show time in a hotel.
The solution goes both ways. Companies need to take better care of their pilots and pilots need to exercise better judgement.
I will not comment on the stall accident and whether or not it was rest related. But this was a pilot error incident and I'm sure the chain of events is long. But something needs to be changed to prevent these accidents.
