Kestrel452
New Member
Ok people, the point of this thread is to develop a letter to send out and coordinate efforts. NOT to argue stupid BS that doesnt hardly matter.
"Remember 3407" Airline Labor Reform Act
- Thread starter Firebird2XC
- Start date
pipepatrol
New Member
Yes, I would take a different approach though. I would just focus on one solution in the letter and not even worry about mentioning higher pay, better job security, etc. Sure these things would be nice, but it really isnt the governments responsibility to look out for the needs of pilots (I suppose anything could happen with Obama though). Afterall, we are free to choose whether or not to accept employment based on the conditions.
I would take out all that other stuff and just keep it more along the lines of how the airlines are making things unsafe for passengers by being able to lower mins so much. If the government is able to raise 121 mins in the name of safety, the airlines will lose power during the next hiring wave. I think if they lose this power, the result will be higher pay, better job security, etc. This would also virtually eliminate the ability for people to spend vast sums of money to become an airline pilot in 90 days (with good timing).
Sure if this happens it will be harder to get employed at the airlines, but I dont think we can have our cake and eat it too.
Kestrel452
New Member
True, but they are both equally important subjects. For the sake of getting our full situation out there, it should be kept. Who says they wont increase minimums just because pay was mentioned in the letter?
pipepatrol
New Member
My thoughts are just that the topic of pay is irrelevant to anybody in government. And the pay is really a result of the airlines ability to lower the mins to something attainable in < 90 days.
Perhaps a letter mentioning mins and all those other topics would achieve results. But I think the more focused and direct the letter is, the better chance there is of something happening. I could be wrong though...
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
Okay, step one is up and running.
You mail email the Remember3407 movement at:
remember.3407@gmail.com
Please direct any questions, stories, or concerns you think the Airline Labor Reform Act should include to that address, if you like.
Thank you!
You mail email the Remember3407 movement at:
remember.3407@gmail.com
Please direct any questions, stories, or concerns you think the Airline Labor Reform Act should include to that address, if you like.
Thank you!
Bumblebee
Commodore
those are Charlie's feet!
ready2fly
Well-Known Member
Charlie: I'm on board. Call me. Let's get together and I'll see what I can do - see if I can draw on some of my former legal-eagle cronies to help out.
I will say, from an experienced level, having worked in the government and in legal channels - that I'm sceptical that anything will come of this, but by sitting on the sidelines, I'm just as guilty as being part of the problem rather than the solution.
Call me.
I will say, from an experienced level, having worked in the government and in legal channels - that I'm sceptical that anything will come of this, but by sitting on the sidelines, I'm just as guilty as being part of the problem rather than the solution.
Call me.
MusketeerMan
Well-Known Member
I don't know man, the big toe look awfully big...
CN94559
New Member
I doubt that I as a 50 some odd hour student pilot can have much say in this, but I do know this.
My dedication to learning how to fly properly has gotten me recognition at my airport and from pilots I have flown with, complementing me in ways such as, "you're better than some of the pilots I fly with that get paid to do it" and as much flattery as that is to me, it also scares me at the same time. Should a 50 hour student pilot be better than some of these pilots? No way. Should people who go from 0 hour to ATP in 90 days be in the front of my plane from DFW to MSL or wherever it might be that im going? No way. I've flown with pilots, in their own planes, who have hundreds of hours that I was scared to death when we were getting close to the landing, and these guys are commericial rated, being able to be paid to fly, and I was nervous flying in their own, SEL fixed gear aircraft, and they tell me, oh Im going to be flying for the regionals soon?!?! There is no way I would want to have them at the controls of any sorta of plane that has anybody but themselves, if even that, on board.
My point is, if somebody like myself, a student pilot, who knows what he's doing in the GA world, doesn't feel safe with these guys, is there any way they should be getting into the 121 world? No way.
Charlie, Im with you in any way I can be.
My dedication to learning how to fly properly has gotten me recognition at my airport and from pilots I have flown with, complementing me in ways such as, "you're better than some of the pilots I fly with that get paid to do it" and as much flattery as that is to me, it also scares me at the same time. Should a 50 hour student pilot be better than some of these pilots? No way. Should people who go from 0 hour to ATP in 90 days be in the front of my plane from DFW to MSL or wherever it might be that im going? No way. I've flown with pilots, in their own planes, who have hundreds of hours that I was scared to death when we were getting close to the landing, and these guys are commericial rated, being able to be paid to fly, and I was nervous flying in their own, SEL fixed gear aircraft, and they tell me, oh Im going to be flying for the regionals soon?!?! There is no way I would want to have them at the controls of any sorta of plane that has anybody but themselves, if even that, on board.
My point is, if somebody like myself, a student pilot, who knows what he's doing in the GA world, doesn't feel safe with these guys, is there any way they should be getting into the 121 world? No way.
Charlie, Im with you in any way I can be.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Nah ur fine man. I got what you were saying.
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
At the time of the accident, they well exceeded ATP minimums. So what would raising the hour requirement really do? What if she'd buzzed around in a 172 until 2000 hours, gotten hired, and had the 2200 at the time of the crash. Again - hours isn't a great absolute metric in determining crew experience...
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
Welp, I just fired the first shot.
If this makes the paper, I'll be impressed. All the same, USA Today just got a juicy chunk of my mind.
-------------------------------------------
USA Today,
Today's debate on air safety in the wake of the Colgan 3407 crash highlights several issues in the national air transportation system. All the same, the whole truth is not clear. The truth is that airline safety is under continuous attack from within, all in the name of profit.
Mr. Roger Cohen states that the standards which apply to regional airlines and major airlines are the same. Untrue. While all airlines fall under a basic set of rules, only the most draconian of airlines stop there. Nearly all major airlines have contracts with labor groups that provide employees with additional rules specific to safety.
Regional airlines have grown to their size as a drive to chip away at those contracts. Airline managers view major airline work agreements as less profitable, so they swell up smaller start-up airlines as 'regional affiliates'. These same managers then resist any drive for better, safer conditions that they deem too costly. This effort erodes the safety strides that have been bled for in the past.
It is said that our current safety rules are written in the blood of air travelers who died in the past. The passengers, crew, and families of Colgan Air flight 3407 have filled that sacred ink well. It is time to raise the pen of action to ensure that future tragedies are prevented.
Cxxxxxx X. Pxxxxxxx
Regional Airline Pilot
Remember 3407, Founder
remember.3407@gmail.com
If this makes the paper, I'll be impressed. All the same, USA Today just got a juicy chunk of my mind.
-------------------------------------------
USA Today,
Today's debate on air safety in the wake of the Colgan 3407 crash highlights several issues in the national air transportation system. All the same, the whole truth is not clear. The truth is that airline safety is under continuous attack from within, all in the name of profit.
Mr. Roger Cohen states that the standards which apply to regional airlines and major airlines are the same. Untrue. While all airlines fall under a basic set of rules, only the most draconian of airlines stop there. Nearly all major airlines have contracts with labor groups that provide employees with additional rules specific to safety.
Regional airlines have grown to their size as a drive to chip away at those contracts. Airline managers view major airline work agreements as less profitable, so they swell up smaller start-up airlines as 'regional affiliates'. These same managers then resist any drive for better, safer conditions that they deem too costly. This effort erodes the safety strides that have been bled for in the past.
It is said that our current safety rules are written in the blood of air travelers who died in the past. The passengers, crew, and families of Colgan Air flight 3407 have filled that sacred ink well. It is time to raise the pen of action to ensure that future tragedies are prevented.
Cxxxxxx X. Pxxxxxxx
Regional Airline Pilot
Remember 3407, Founder
remember.3407@gmail.com
ready2fly
Well-Known Member
Looks good.
Charlie, we're going to need a couple of things before we move forward. Check your PM's in a few.
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
Howabout a website.... "what its really like at the regionals . com" or something. I'm sure people would love to know that those of us who don't commute still have periods between flights of less than three hours of sleep..... hello CDO/standup/illegal!
Also, a little bit of background on the Railway Labor Act and why pilots can't just walk to protest/improve their conditions....
Also, a little bit of background on the Railway Labor Act and why pilots can't just walk to protest/improve their conditions....
Scandinavian13
New Member
I'm going to be "that guy" and state that "ATM machine" needs to be changed to simply "ATM."
ATM = Automatic Teller Machine
"Don't type your PIN number into an ATM machine. You might get the HIV virus."
ATM = Automatic Teller Machine
"Don't type your PIN number into an ATM machine. You might get the HIV virus."
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
Bumblebee
Commodore
Scandinavian13
New Member
The drafted letter has "ATM machine" in it. I seriously first thought it was some machine related to an air traffic manager, until I read the rest of the sentence. I figured the rest of the mistakes and general language have been corrected. This one should be as well.
The sentence at the bottom is something I've seen around. It's a compilation of some of the acronym redundancies.
%APR, 6A.M. in the morning, ABS system, AC current, ATM machine, DC current, GMT time, GRE exam, LAN network, LCD display, PC Computer, PIN number, Please RSVP, SAT test, UPC code, VIN number...
I'm not trying to detract from the overall message of the initiative, I'm just trying to make the letter better. It's something a lot of people do, however, and it wasn't caught, so I pointed it out. As far as the initiative goes, I'm all for it. I just think that if you're sending a letter to anyone important, all of your p's and q's should be minded, i's dotted and t's crossed, and acronyms sorted.
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