Avalon781ML
Well-Known Member
True... but (and this will be the only time I will ever say this) when you work 4 days and make over $5500 I am pretty content with not pushing it to 600%... would you not agree?
Realignment Round 2 at 9E
- Thread starter DL31082
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True... but (and this will be the only time I will ever say this) when you work 4 days and make over $5500 I am pretty content with not pushing it to 600%... would you not agree?
D.E.N.N.I.S.
Member
Any reason the union hasn't sent anything out yet?
I realize that they might not have any answers. But an e-mail saying as much would be nice.
inFormations just make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside...
I realize that they might not have any answers. But an e-mail saying as much would be nice.
inFormations just make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside...
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
It also depends on which of the three properties you're with. Some have better communications than others. Honestly, it's probably a "We don't know anything" and "The company doesn't really know with the F is going on" just isn't professional as far as blast e-mails go. Might be true, though.....
v1valarob
Well-Known Member
What would you like them to say?
ctab5060X
Well-Known Member
Anything but dead silence would be nice for a change.
flyinggreasemnky
Well-Known Member
Well considering I'm just an fo and well past my max jrms for the year, I don't hesitate to ask for 600%. I know they've given it before and it still is less than what it costs for them to jrm a senior captain.
D.E.N.N.I.S.
Member
Do you like getting information like this directly from the company? I look at the union, and our representatives, as a liaison between myself and the company.
I think an e-mail would be nice,
even if they don't know anything more than what the company has already told us.
You may disagree, but I would like some correspondence
ctab5060X
Well-Known Member
It would be nice to get information like that directly from the union.
Continued silence only brings out the 'Where is the union in all of this mess?' complainers.
L-16B
Well-Known Member
If you miss out on upgrade u should go back to colgan van driver and get a raise.
v1valarob
Well-Known Member
They did away with them. Then quickly realized crews had no way to get to the hangar. Idiots.
I can tell you that the union is gathering information, before sending out a pointless "we don't know" email.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
And blast mails bring out the "I wish the damn union would stop sending me worthless e-mail" complainers. Point: people are gonna bitch no matter what.
I'm just curious if the company busted this "displacement cap" in the last realignment bid and either no one called them on it or the union just rolled it into the latest LOA.....
ctab5060X
Well-Known Member
Sometimes in a situation such as this, there are no pointless emails.
Communication is communication... even if you only say that you know there is an issue and to expect a more detailed explanation in the near future.
ctab5060X
Well-Known Member
And blast mails bring out the "I wish the damn union would stop sending me worthless e-mail" complainers. Point: people are gonna bitch no matter what.
After the past couple of years at 9E, I will gladly take too many union emails rather than continued silence...
Cruise
Well-Known Member
You (the figurative YOU....not singling ctab out) do have that information, and it's directly from the union. It's called a contract....perhaps you should read it? Most of the information, on many, many subjects you seek answers too, are already contained within the pages.
Your reps aren't there to spoon feed information. Be assured they are involved in what's going on and they've got plenty to deal with. There has been communication. We were told the award was going to be late due to a glitch in the software. I'm not defending the company or the glitchy software...but this is a new/ very complex award.....if they need a couple extra days to get it right, they can use it. Like others have said, CONTRACTUALLY the company has until Monday. I would be willing to bet you'll see another memo regarding the status of the award prior to COB tomorrow or sometime well before the true deadline nears.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Wait. We were told it was because of the arbitrator imposed displacement cap. Is it that or a software glitch? We've had so many software glitches and missed deadlines from Sabre, maybe it's time to accept bids on new software. I know they got until 1000 CST Monday to get the award out, but are we prepared to file a grievance on them at 1001 CST, or are we gonna let them slide.....again. I think a lot of the frustration comes from the company missing deadlines and hearing "Well, it's coming. Oh look! An LOA!" This time last year, all the 9E guys were hearing was "Mesaba wouldn't stand for that."
ctab5060X
Well-Known Member
You're right... we do have the contract... Printed in such legal language that most don't understand what it is saying half the time. That is why we have reps. I also am willing to bet that a large majority of the combined pilot group have not read the contract. Not singling you out cruise, I'm just saying.
And yes... there has been communication. From the company... in the form of a memo on the company website... in a location that not everybody checks. It would have even been nice to have gotten a blast mail from the union with the memo attached. Instead I got multiple emails about the Early Bid Period, making sure I have a bid in for 11-09, and selling back my vacation in 2012. Surely our elected reps (especially the ones on full time buy) aren't so busy that they can't attach the memo the company produced and send it to the pilot group.
I am seeing the same problems that plauged the 9E MEC for so long. Not just a lack of communication, but a lack of communication during critical times.
Cruise
Well-Known Member
Yes, that is exactly right. Apparently there is some difficulty in the way the software was handling the displacement caps, etc... So, you can call it bad programming, glitch, computer voodoo, or whatever you want. The problem is in the software at the moment. From what I've heard, they've made corrections to it and they should have it 'close' to being correct today. Then with some manual manipulation of the award, they believe they'll have it right. We'll see how close they are when it's published.
I'm definitely with ya on the missed deadline stuff. It's ridiculous! However, instead of beating the war drums with them, the union has maintained a decent working relationship with the company. As such, they've gained quite a bit for the pilot group through LOA's. I support working with them to improve things instead of rubbing their nose in the poop every time. Don't get me wrong, we definitely need to show them the poop, and let them no it's not acceptable. But we also need to work with them to clean it up. What good does it do to instantly grieve every thing they screw up??? How'd that work for you guys in the past?
We are making strong progress. Let's keep it going. If the progress stops, then we should start circling the wagons.
Ok, fair enough. That's exactly right. There are many pilots out there who haven't read the contract, with the exception of the pay grids in Section 3. Yes, your reps are there to help interpret some of the language. However, they're not there to spoon feed. If you haven't bothered to help yourself, why should someone else?
Well, I see what you're saying about the location of the memo. Although, it was very easy to find on our crew website....perhaps it was buried on yours? :dunno: Also, we don't have a single rep on a full-time buy on our side of the house. So, yeah....they're very busy with both flying and union work. The information is out there, there is no need to send it again.
That said, since we're still separate operations....maybe your reps should have sent you a redundant email with the information?
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
My question is, what is the definition of progress stopping? Are we okay with just a little progress or do we start circling the wagons when it appears they're trying to stall for time? It's almost like we've had this conversation before about, oh, a year ago under different circumstances. I'm all about supporting improvements and helping out, but we need to have a line in the sand that's clear to both sides where we put our foot down and say "No, we've given enough on this now. Fix it." It costs money to re-bid software, and we haven't had a bid YET that's gone properly since the SLI (at least not on the 9E side of things). The 9E pilots are frustrated and angry, particularly guys in and around ctab's seniority. If it weren't for this fantastic merger, a lot of those guys would be CAs right now. Instead, they're looking at ANOTHER year or so before they see the left seat at least. Instead, we've got displaced XJ guys getting those seats, and Colgan is still on a fast track upgrade on the Saab. The merger has been great for the other two properties, but we've seen nothing but bad out of this. It's understandable that our guys are getting pissed.
I'll say this right now with no second thoughts: our representation at 9E has gone downhill. Wrecked even. I can't wait for the whole NY thing to happen since none of our reps are really around that much. LEC meetings? Forget that, they're all in DTW. There's no option to "Just stop by for a little bit before/after/in the middle of a trip" unless you happen to be flying through DTW." I actually get BETTER info from Colgan's reps. From what I heard about the LEC elections in MEM, it was XJ's way or the highway. Then the CA rep bid a phantom slot in MSP, which creates a whole new issue. It's got a lot of the 9E side of the house down there wondering if yet something else comes up that favors XJ pilots over 9E pilots, will they get a fair shake. If I were still down there, I'd be curious about the same thing.
They like to tell us we're one big pilot group, but we are so NOT. With the way the quotas were skewed (mostly thanks to 9E's BRILLIANT staffing model when the snapshot was taken), it makes us clearly 3 separate groups. IMO, it's more like 2 1/2, with 9E being the 1/2 that other people can jump in on. There was supposed to be a dispute resolution system in place 60 days after the arbitrator's award. It's no where to be seen, and the arbitrator is apparently MIA on the subject. Our side of the merger team wants to dispute the quotas, but they can't since there's no resolution system with which to do so.
Yeah, our company website is jacked up. Important things like Sean's message saying to stay strong through the bumps are on the front page. Meanwhile, a memo saying talking about bidding is under Flight ops--->Awards. A lot of our guys don't even know where to go to see the awards and postings for bids. They see them up in the crew rooms, and that's where they know to get the info. The 9E website is a poor design and looks like it was designed by someone from Geocities University. Info is scattered here, there and everywhere. If you don't know exactly where to look, you may never find it. Our "forms" section where all the REALLY important things like system bids, comp day forms, vacation slide/short term training bid, etc isn't in any kind of order. Everything is just jumbled in there, so you have to hunt through the entire list to find what you need. Alphabetizing it would go a long way, which is just sad. Vacation is sometimes on the form page, but it COULD be under it's own vacation bidding section.
The ONLY communication I've seen from our side of the union in the past week and a half has been from the PBS team, as ctab mention, reminding everyone of the early bid period. Speaking of that, I didn't even know where the early bid pack WAS on our company site until someone pointed it out to me. I just went straight to Bids-->JFK assuming it would be next to the normal monthly bid. Didn't stop to see an "Early bid" selection was added to the same drop down as menu with JFK, MEM, DTW, MSP and ATL. If I had a lot of time and the company was willing to pay me, I'd go in and re-design the web site to be user friendly. It's so NOT. Everytime something needs to get added, they just toss it somewhere it seems to fit. But they DID change the Ground Ops menu to PinnPro REAL quick.
ctab5060X
Well-Known Member
Yes, that is exactly right. Apparently there is some difficulty in the way the software was handling the displacement caps, etc... So, you can call it bad programming, glitch, computer voodoo, or whatever you want. The problem is in the software at the moment. From what I've heard, they've made corrections to it and they should have it 'close' to being correct today. Then with some manual manipulation of the award, they believe they'll have it right. We'll see how close they are when it's published.
Not a knock on you, but this is exactly what lack of any communication from the union leads to. Someone posting what they heard online that spreads through the pilot group like wildfire as if it was the truth handed down from the Almighty.
Guys (and gals) at 9E have been dealing with this type stuff for way too long. Not sure about Colgan and Mesaba, but I think it is time for a change in how the union handles even the most basic communications with the pilot group.
I agree with working with the company... to an extent. Remember, this is the same company that kept dragging out contract negotiations with the 9E side of the house. Dropping hints of the f-word at 9E while 9L took delivery of new Q400s... The list is too long to write.
However, I also understand that the upper management that did all of those nasty deeds is gone (for the most part). That being said, we need to 'draw a line in the sand' and stand firm or the company will continue to push us around on items that are even more important than just a simple realignment.
It has almost been a year since our joint TA... About 8 months since we ratified the JCBA. Even though the day-to-day operations are still separate for now, I am still seeing an extremely large lack of unity on the union level. For this merger/acquisition/whatever you want to call it to suceed, we must be unified and stop seeing ourselves as separate operations at the union level.
One Contract, One List, One Voice... got two of them, but that voice is awfully quiet
