Pubnat 5/6

Does anyone know hows part time work counts for the work experience? For example is one year averaging 20 hours a week considered the same as 6 months full time? Cause I'm a college student and haven't worked full time, but I've held a few summer jobs and one consistent bartending job. I'm assuming I'm ok because I got mailed the geo prefs and everything, but I just wanna make sure. I graduate in May if that makes any difference.

ya know i was wondering the same thing when i was filling out the application because when i worked at UPS it was only part time work but i just made sure all my hours for different part time jobs ended up adding up to a total of 3 years of 40 hour a week total along with my schooling. im sure by now they arent going to go over your application again if you get choosen just the interview and the tests.
 
Exactly.

Because of the sheer volume of applicants I think the situation you bring up is rare. For example I don't know of anyone in the qualified group from Pubnat 3 and 4 that even got a TOL. However a bunch of WQ people got offers to go to Louisiana even though they never put that state down on the geo pref.

Actually, that's not exactly correct. Your application will be reviewed by the person selecting for the district you put in your first choice. If you have down a particular location(s) that is(are) full (or otherwise not hiring you), they may consider you for other locations within that district... so, say you put down that you'd really like to work at SFO and they're not taking on developmentals at the moment, they may see if you would fit into Oakland or Sacramento or wherever. Or they may just pass you straight to your second choice state.

What they won't do, however, is pass you around from person to person, trying to find a place to fit you in. For starters, it'd take forever -- each area already has plenty of people to deal with, and the panels would go on forever if areas passed their "rejects" onto others. But more importantly, it would miss the point of the geo preferences, which is intended to place hires in a location where they'll be likely to stay for a while. If a candidate puts down that they want to work in Florida and Georgia but are offered, say, Nevada, they're less likely to accept it, and if they do, more likely to get out of there as soon as they can. Which means money and time wasted for the FAA.

"What about people who have been offered locations outside of what they put down?" Well, it's almost always one of two things: 1. The location they were offered was within one of their districts, as mentioned above, or 2. The change came AFTER they were already offered an interview (or received their TOL). An interview invite is basically a hire, since at that point, it's yours to screw up. But if, during the process, the FAA realizes "oh, crap, we had too many people turn down this facility -- or we just didn't offer enough slots for it", then they can transfer those new hires over to it. Doesn't happen a lot, but it's not unheard of. A few people from PUBNAT2 had their TOLs changed, a few more from PUBNAT3/4 and PUBAK were asked if they would reconsider their location in Alaska. But in all of the cases I'm aware of, it was done AFTER receiving an invite to a PEPC.

"Okay, but what about the famous Louisiana email?" That was a one-time thing that is very, very unlikely to happen again. Why? I just got through writing a long explanation of it on SM, but the short version is because they've corrected the problem which led to needing that email, which was sent out to a few people in PUBNAT2. Basically, at the panels for PUBNAT2, not enough people were picked up to address a severe shortage in Louisiana. When they realized it, they sent out the email to try and get enough people to last until the next hiring round. But since then -- and this is coming from two people who work in the hiring process and explained it to me -- they've corrected things so it won't be overlooked in the past. And if they get in a situation where not enough people are selected, they'll now handle it as mentioned above: asking applicants to consider a different area, or outright changing their TOLs (which they did this most recent round with FAI). There are also temporary staff reassignment offers made to controllers at nearby facilities.

"Uh, great. But how do you know all this?" Answering that would make this already long post even longer, and I don't want to divulge my sources online -- because I don't want people to track down the FAA employees I spoke with flooding them with calls. So I guess you'll just have to take my word for it. But trust me, I've spent about every free moment I've had over the last several months figuring this stuff out.

Anyway, the moral of the story is think carefully about where you want to go and what you'll accept -- and put it down. And don't hold out too much hope for getting offered other places. It may happen, but if your goal is to just get the job, figure out where your odds are highest and go for it. Besides... West Virginia isn't all bad. The skiing's great.
 
Does anyone know hows part time work counts for the work experience? For example is one year averaging 20 hours a week considered the same as 6 months full time? Cause I'm a college student and haven't worked full time, but I've held a few summer jobs and one consistent bartending job.

You should be fine. You're far enough along in classes and work that it won't be an issue.
 
Actually, that's not exactly correct. Your application will be reviewed by the person selecting for the district you put in your first choice. If you have down a particular location(s) that is(are) full (or otherwise not hiring you), they may consider you for other locations within that district... so, say you put down that you'd really like to work at SFO and they're not taking on developmentals at the moment, they may see if you would fit into Oakland or Sacramento or wherever. Or they may just pass you straight to your second choice state.

What they won't do, however, is pass you around from person to person, trying to find a place to fit you in. For starters, it'd take forever -- each area already has plenty of people to deal with, and the panels would go on forever if areas passed their "rejects" onto others. But more importantly, it would miss the point of the geo preferences, which is intended to place hires in a location where they'll be likely to stay for a while. If a candidate puts down that they want to work in Florida and Georgia but are offered, say, Nevada, they're less likely to accept it, and if they do, more likely to get out of there as soon as they can. Which means money and time wasted for the FAA.

"What about people who have been offered locations outside of what they put down?" Well, it's almost always one of two things: 1. The location they were offered was within one of their districts, as mentioned above, or 2. The change came AFTER they were already offered an interview (or received their TOL). An interview invite is basically a hire, since at that point, it's yours to screw up. But if, during the process, the FAA realizes "oh, crap, we had too many people turn down this facility -- or we just didn't offer enough slots for it", then they can transfer those new hires over to it. Doesn't happen a lot, but it's not unheard of. A few people from PUBNAT2 had their TOLs changed, a few more from PUBNAT3/4 and PUBAK were asked if they would reconsider their location in Alaska. But in all of the cases I'm aware of, it was done AFTER receiving an invite to a PEPC.

"Okay, but what about the famous Louisiana email?" That was a one-time thing that is very, very unlikely to happen again. Why? I just got through writing a long explanation of it on SM, but the short version is because they've corrected the problem which led to needing that email, which was sent out to a few people in PUBNAT2. Basically, at the panels for PUBNAT2, not enough people were picked up to address a severe shortage in Louisiana. When they realized it, they sent out the email to try and get enough people to last until the next hiring round. But since then -- and this is coming from two people who work in the hiring process and explained it to me -- they've corrected things so it won't be overlooked in the past. And if they get in a situation where not enough people are selected, they'll now handle it as mentioned above: asking applicants to consider a different area, or outright changing their TOLs (which they did this most recent round with FAI). There are also temporary staff reassignment offers made to controllers at nearby facilities.

"Uh, great. But how do you know all this?" Answering that would make this already long post even longer, and I don't want to divulge my sources online -- because I don't want people to track down the FAA employees I spoke with flooding them with calls. So I guess you'll just have to take my word for it. But trust me, I've spent about every free moment I've had over the last several months figuring this stuff out.

Anyway, the moral of the story is think carefully about where you want to go and what you'll accept -- and put it down. And don't hold out too much hope for getting offered other places. It may happen, but if your goal is to just get the job, figure out where your odds are highest and go for it. Besides... West Virginia isn't all bad. The skiing's great.

Yeah that's why I prefaced it with the word "rare".
 
Crap...I went and made this thread and then was busy for two whole days and look what happened.

I don't mean to be a jerk...but this is all very redundant. I am going to hope that the people who happen to be posting have not applied to any previous PUBNATs and also haven't been on these forums long. I read up on the process loooooooooong before I was in the think of it.

1. If you were authorized to take the AT-SAT, there are very few reasons why you shouldn't have gotten a GeoPrefs email

2. A computer...yes a computer...takes my name, and aaaaaaaaaaaaall the other people who prefed my state and puts us on an ordered (the best choices on top) list. The computer uses our scores, experience and any number of factors to make this list. They can see if you scored WQ or Q, but not your actual score. Lets say WoH's husband is #487 on the California list and #214 on the Colorado list. It is true that some people may not make the list, but most likely because they don't have a job for you, not because you suck for some reason.

3. ASAP will post if you are being considered. Click applications, and then submitted. It will say that you are being considered...not CONGRATULATIONS! You made the list! My hubby was really let down because I thought his list notification meant he had been passed over. This is the last corespondence you will ever get on ASAP. It will all be email from here on out.

4. A person, or group of people, gets the list for their state. They pick people, probably starting at the top, who they want to hire and assign them facilities. It is more than reasonable to assume that there are enough people scoring WQ that they will not get far enough down on the list to get to the Q people. Many people scoring WQ were passed over for 3/4.

5. The FAA sends their selections to an independent agency who preps and formats emails for those who were selected. When they are all done, and they are not very efficient, a massive emailing takes place where those selected are invited to interview for the position. The position is yours at this point! There is no one else interviewing for your spot. If you jump through all thier hops...you get it.

6. You go to the PEPC (no, we don't know where they're going to be or when) and sign your TOL during your oral interview. Do not, DO NOT!, try to negotiate your facility at this time. That is your only offer. Then you will proceed to a large amount of medical tests. Then you go home.

7. If you're cleared for everything AND they have an acadamy date for you, you will get an FOL. Hopefully withing a few months, most likely not until October or later.

Helpful?
 
I understand that the next step is getting an interview invite. I couldn't, however, find out how close the interview would be. Also, another question, what good would it do, if any, to call a facility that I would like to work and at least get my name in the mix? Thanks for your help, these boards are the only thing keeping me sane right now.

Yes, that might have helped. Probably too late now. Also, no the ATO doesn't seem to be listening to the ATMs anymore. So it may not have helped at all.

Call the facility. Ask for the ATM. Introduce yourself. Say you are up for selection this month. Say if you got WQ. Offer to visit the facility and meet with him.
 
4. A person, or group of people, gets the list for their state. They pick people, probably starting at the top, who they want to hire and assign them facilities. It is more than reasonable to assume that there are enough people scoring WQ that they will not get far enough down on the list to get to the Q people. Many people scoring WQ were passed over for 3/4.

6. You go to the PEPC (no, we don't know where they're going to be or when) and sign your TOL during your oral interview. Do not, DO NOT!, try to negotiate your facility at this time. That is your only offer. Then you will proceed to a large amount of medical tests. Then you go home.
Helpful?

On #4: Yeah, Bigey had a 97% on the AT-SAT, but he wasn't selected, yet I did with an 87.2%. It all depends on facility needs and availability.

On #6: You can talk with your HR rep after the PEPC if you would like to switch facilities, but it won't always happen. HR has to request the change with the ATO, and if it is approved (the ATO has to basically say, "Yes, we can add him to our list"), then you will get an amended TOL to sign. Your class date may or may not be altered by the facility change. There isn't much of a way to know, even for the HR reps, since they don't necessarily have the numbers that the ATO has. HR is concerned with getting your forms signed/submitted and getting you in a facility.
 
2. A computer...yes a computer...takes my name, and aaaaaaaaaaaaall the other people who prefed my state and puts us on an ordered (the best choices on top) list. The computer uses our scores, experience and any number of factors to make this list. They can see if you scored WQ or Q, but not your actual score. Lets say WoH's husband is #487 on the California list and #214 on the Colorado list. It is true that some people may not make the list, but most likely because they don't have a job for you, not because you suck for some reason.


So does this mean that our raw score counts, just that no person actually sees it? Like the computer factors in the raw score to your placement on the list?
 
So does this mean that our raw score counts, just that no person actually sees it? Like the computer factors in the raw score to your placement on the list?

If that is correct, I'm sure there's some sort of weight assigned to each individual category.

However...

I think that AT-SAT score and your Geo Prefs ultimately determine if you're going to get picked up.
 
Yes you are correct. The PEPC invite is the next step and it comes in about 2-6 weeks after panels meet. It comes via an e-mail similar to geo-prefs email. The PEPC invite or local Inteview process (if you chose a local interview process this takes longer) only comes if you have been selected for a facility. It should say something like ... "you are being consider for further consideration for (insert your facility name)". You will be able to chose the date that you can attend a pepc or you can follow threw with a local interview process (im not too familiar with this process). Once you go to a PEPC which is usually in bigger cities and once a month for like 4 months or so. If you dont royaly skrew up they have a TOL tenative offer for you and your facility. At that point you can sign it and start the process right then (at the pepc) the medical, phycological, and vision exams. If you do well on those there is a time frame for your background checks to clear and your medicals to come back cleared (this seems to take about two months with out errors but as we all know it will probably be longer). If at the PEPC you fail any of the exams they give you an opportunity to have some federal papers filled out from your doctor or optomotrist or even a physcologist (seems as tho there have been several ppl who failed the mmpi <thats the physc exam) so if you fail them don't stress too much your not the only person just get your paper work filed out. Once everything is cleared you get an email of your FOL then a packet with your actual FOL and you get an oklahoma city date at that time.

Hope this helps

Jermcentral you forgot to critisize me and say "holy run on sentences batman" lol, I was waiting for you to jab at me.
 
If that is correct, I'm sure there's some sort of weight assigned to each individual category.

However...

I think that AT-SAT score and your Geo Prefs ultimately determine if you're going to get picked up.

You all have to remember that the AT-SAT score is just ONE piece of the entire "weight" of your application. You make it seem that the score and geo-pref is dominant. That is not correct. (Will your state you selected have to be in need of people - YES, but AT-SAT score alone will not do it).
I know you wish it were if you scored a 100 on the AT-SAT...but remember that application you filled out? It is scored/rated based on specific answers received. The panel will also look at the QUALITY of work experience, education (they could care less about GPA), aviation experience, etc to start separating the applicants on the list. The set-up is very similar to the military when selecting folks for OTS/pilot slots. The "whole person" concept is used to determine the quality of an applicant...not just the AFOQT scores. It is important to score well, yet any type of score can land a slot if you have various other "highlights" or impressive items on your package...or no competition.

If you have a high score and impressive background, you have a great shot at selection. If you have a high score and an average background (I'm not even going to attempt to define Avg. background), you probably fit into the 50th percentile of the entire group and selection could go either way. If you didn't score very well, hopefully you have other impressive items on your application to help you out, or you selected an area with not much competition. There are so many variables along with timing, you really can't pinpoint them all.
 
You all have to remember that the AT-SAT score is just ONE piece of the entire "weight" of your application. You make it seem that the score and geo-pref is dominant. That is not correct. (Will your state you selected have to be in need of people - YES, but AT-SAT score alone will not do it).
I know you wish it were if you scored a 100 on the AT-SAT...but remember that application you filled out? It is scored/rated based on specific answers received. The panel will also look at the QUALITY of work experience, education (they could care less about GPA), aviation experience, etc to start separating the applicants on the list. The set-up is very similar to the military when selecting folks for OTS/pilot slots. The "whole person" concept is used to determine the quality of an applicant...not just the AFOQT scores. It is important to score well, yet any type of score can land a slot if you have various other "highlights" or impressive items on your package...or no competition.

If you have a high score and impressive background, you have a great shot at selection. If you have a high score and an average background (I'm not even going to attempt to define Avg. background), you probably fit into the 50th percentile of the entire group and selection could go either way. If you didn't score very well, hopefully you have other impressive items on your application to help you out, or you selected an area with not much competition. There are so many variables along with timing, you really can't pinpoint them all.

I applied with 2 years of college coursework towards a Bachelors degree and 4 years of work experience (two of which were at an Arby's as a Crew Trainer) with no aviation background whatsoever. Not the most impressive application, but I still got selected.

It is for that reason that I believe the AT-SAT and Geo Prefs have a larger weight than aviation background or work experience.
 
After reading up on what all is included in the Medical at the PEPC I saw that they use the Dvorine Eye test, which is basically just like the Ishihara Eye test from what I can tell (the dotted plates). After looking at some of the plates, and being unable to read the numbers, I think I am red-green color deficient :confused: and it says something like 60% of white males are susceptible to red-green color deficiency. Has anyone else that has been picked up by the FAA failed that portion of the medical? What happens?

Now I am a bit scared :(
 
After reading up on what all is included in the Medical at the PEPC I saw that they use the Dvorine Eye test, which is basically just like the Ishihara Eye test from what I can tell (the dotted plates). After looking at some of the plates, and being unable to read the numbers, I think I am red-green color deficient :confused: and it says something like 60% of white males are susceptible to red-green color deficiency. Has anyone else that has been picked up by the FAA failed that portion of the medical? What happens?

Now I am a bit scared :(

Just memorize the numbers :sarcasm:
 
Just memorize the numbers :sarcasm:

My grandfather flew in the Air Force back in the day, and has told me many stories of aviators memorizing charts, etc to ensure they kept their flying status. People will go to great lengths to get what they want or need....I am not suggesting you memorize the numbers, though!
 
My grandfather flew in the Air Force back in the day, and has told me many stories of aviators memorizing charts, etc to ensure they kept their flying status. People will go to great lengths to get what they want or need....I am not suggesting you memorize the numbers, though!
That's a little unsettling...
 
Sorry.. I guess I'm not as funny as I thought. :o

However, you never know.. You can google them online and see if you can read them then.

I would have laughed except I saw in another thread someone saying they memorized them :crazy: so I know it's possible..
 
I would have laughed except I saw in another thread someone saying they memorized them :crazy: so I know it's possible..
Ohh.. I wonder how it's possible to memorize something you can't actually see?

/ponder

Have you not noticed any color deficiencies up until now?
 
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