PSA New Hire FO Classes Suspended

chrisreedrules said:
Honestly, we could argue back and forth about a yes or no vote. I feel strongly for my argument, and I'm sure you do for yours. I speak from negotiating experience and I don't know about you. None of us will progress up the ranks of we can't hire. And that is going to become a paramount issue in the coming months. So no, I don't think it deserves a "Yes" vote and I think this TA is pointless. The company WILL come back in much less than 9 months or PSA will become stagnant and start bleeding more FOs than it already is. And they will come back with more.
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You do realize Piedmont is estimating a 5 year flow for new hires and an 18 month upgrade with a $10k sign on bonus with 4-5 commuter hotels/month and just opened a brand new PHL hub base yet they are still having a harder time attracting new hires than PSA? All the things you mention PSA needs to do to get new hires PDT is doing and still trails PSA in the new hire count so the market disagrees with you. I don't see why you are so concerned with us getting new hires, that is for management to worry about. What is so bad about agreeing to a deal that forces the company to meet again in just 6 months to discuss a bigger flow? If recruiting is going to be so tough it will only help us get more money and flow numbers as time goes on. I think the NC did a good job but apparently you have negotiating experience and think you could do better so please put your name in the hat and tell the MEC how you could get us a better deal and how you know that management WILL be back in 9 months. This movement and growth is too much for some of you youngins (mainly talking about Freecos), maybe 7 or 8 years in the right seat of an RJ would give you some perspective on how hard it is to get to a major and why this deal is a step in the right direction. Or you could apply to PDT and show PSA management that they will lose pilots to other carriers offering better career progression......
 
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Freecos said:
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That meme is pretty neat where did you get it?
 
Not to add fuel to the ability (or lack there of) to attract new hires but a friend said it wasn't 8 people in the latest class but was 5 total people showed in the past new hire class? Truth to this?
 
motormadness24 said:
Why the wait?
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Because in general, ALPA units don't take probies on in volunteer positions because they aren't fully represented by the union yet. It makes defending them a bit more difficult if a company decides to go after a union volunteer for something. Also, probationary pilots don't get a vote, so they are pretty much one step removed from the union process.

Finally, especially at the regional level when guys are new to the industry, it's sometimes a good thing to get a little perspective before entering a volunteer position.
 
motormadness24 said:
@chrisreedrules, since you are vocal on the company not following the contract, could you provide specific examples? Also, may I suggest helping your fellow pilot group by doing some ALPA work? Perhaps the contract enforcement committee?
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Uh... How about the recent revelation that we were being paid our cancellation pay properly because the company was referencing an "outdated" section of the contract... How about the FACT that every single paycheck needs to be checked because they never get it right. Or, I've got one... How about the SAP magically bogging down all of a sudden and despite everything, it still not being fixed? Reserve grid, critical coverage days / pay etc... You asking me what I think the company is not abiding by the contract on makes me wonder what planet your on?
 
BobDDuck said:
Because in general, ALPA units don't take probies on in volunteer positions because they aren't fully represented by the union yet. It makes defending them a bit more difficult if a company decides to go after a union volunteer for something. Also, probationary pilots don't get a vote, so they are pretty much one step removed from the union process.

Finally, especially at the regional level when guys are new to the industry, it's sometimes a good thing to get a little perspective before entering a volunteer position.
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They are fully represented. They just may have a hard time filing a grievance for a termination. There are plenty of examples of union volunteers working for their respective pilot group while on probation. Many have previous ALPA experience and for one reason or the other end up at a different shop.

It is true that they cannot vote or hold an elected position or be a committee chair for that matter. They sure can do volunteer work though if they want. My place has several who are active in our mentor program along with other committees. I'll agree with you though that contract, negotiations, etc is not the place to get your feet wet.
 
chrisreedrules said:
Uh... How about the recent revelation that we were being paid our cancellation pay properly because the company was referencing an "outdated" section of the contract... How about the FACT that every single paycheck needs to be checked because they never get it right. Or, I've got one... How about the SAP magically bogging down all of a sudden and despite everything, it still not being fixed? Reserve grid, critical coverage days / pay etc... You asking me what I think the company is not abiding by the contract on makes me wonder what planet your on?
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SAP worked pretty well for me this month... Do you even have the opportunity to SAP? I agree you do have to check your paycheck every pay period. Sadly, I've had to do that at every single aviation job I've ever had...
 
The pay issue is a convoluted system and incompetence, not malice. Think about it, all the things mgt are reactionary on, and other areas of incompetence. You really think they are capable of deliberately screwing you and anyone else out of pay, cents at a time, one crewmember at a time? I think not. I have had maybe 3 minor pay issues in 2.5 yrs and they were quickly fixed with a pay report.
 
chrisreedrules said:
Uh... How about the recent revelation that we were being paid our cancellation pay properly because the company was referencing an "outdated" section of the contract... How about the FACT that every single paycheck needs to be checked because they never get it right. Or, I've got one... How about the SAP magically bogging down all of a sudden and despite everything, it still not being fixed? Reserve grid, critical coverage days / pay etc... You asking me what I think the company is not abiding by the contract on makes me wonder what planet your on?
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The FACT is that if you really think this company is purposefully screwing you/us in the SAP and pay issues, you are giv8ng them way too much credit. They aren't that competent. I will give you that they are indeed manipulating reserve grids at the beginning of the month. The final arbitration on that issue is over, have you noticed that since then, the reserve grids are not changing throughout the month as they were? Now they are just setting the min reserves equal to the net reserves for the whole month, making it almost impossible to trade anything other than day for day.
 
Ive heard (don't know, cause I don't work there yet) that SAP is bogged because people go in and try to make a million and a half* trades and that causes the system to bog down. Is it true that if you want to drop a trip or SAP down, that feature works perfectly? That would be the major thing for me, I would want to drop some trips to make me have more time off.

*-figures may be exaggerated
 
Donnie Kahn said:
Ive heard (don't know, cause I don't work there yet) that SAP is bogged because people go in and try to make a million and a half* trades and that causes the system to bog down. Is it true that if you want to drop a trip or SAP down, that feature works perfectly? That would be the major thing for me, I would want to drop some trips to make me have more time off.

*-figures may be exaggerated
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Yes, flica software bogs down, it is not designed to handle the demand we put on it at this time, imho. This needs to be fixed. I would like to see the association push for PBS.

Yes, that is true...you can drop down to no less than 65 hrs. However it has to be done by trading, cannot just drop a trip. Ex: trade two 20 hr 4 days for two 15 hr 2 days (assuming you were awarded a 75 hr line. Many lines credit 85-92 hrs.
 
Ziggyfuzz said:
Yes, flica software bogs down, it is not designed to handle the demand we put on it at this time, imho. This needs to be fixed. I would like to see the association push for PBS.

Yes, that is true...you can drop down to no less than 65 hrs. However it has to be done by trading, cannot just drop a trip. Ex: trade two 20 hr 4 days for two 15 hr 2 days (assuming you were awarded a 75 hr line. Many lines credit 85-92 hrs.
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We aren't the only airline that has this SAP feature.

The problem is the buffers the company sets that delays the trades. People makes a lot of requests because they know that there is a high chance the trip they just swapped into was probably taken by someone else so they make request on multiple trips in that pot.

Whenever you see the black font processing that's flica. Whenever you see purple font processing, that's the scheduling side. The long wait times are when it's purple.
 
cybourg12 said:
You do realize Piedmont is estimating a 5 year flow for new hires and an 18 month upgrade with a $10k sign on bonus with 4-5 commuter hotels/month and just opened a brand new PHL hub base yet they are still having a harder time attracting new hires than PSA? All the things you mention PSA needs to do to get new hires PDT is doing and still trails PSA in the new hire count so the market disagrees with you. I don't see why you are so concerned with us getting new hires, that is for management to worry about. What is so bad about agreeing to a deal that forces the company to meet again in just 6 months to discuss a bigger flow? If recruiting is going to be so tough it will only help us get more money and flow numbers as time goes on. I think the NC did a good job but apparently you have negotiating experience and think you could do better so please put your name in the hat and tell the MEC how you could get us a better deal and how you know that management WILL be back in 9 months. This movement and growth is too much for some of you youngins (mainly talking about Freecos), maybe 7 or 8 years in the right seat of an RJ would give you some perspective on how hard it is to get to a major and why this deal is a step in the right direction. Or you could apply to PDT and show PSA management that they will lose pilots to other carriers offering better career progression......
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Here is some perspective. American plans to hire 1500 pilots over the next five years. Most coming from PSA, Piedmont, and Envoy. That's currently 1200, 400, 2000 pilots respectively. Not counting some of the military guys. How is the flow going to be 5 years for anyone other than the guys that were already on property, towards the top, when it was put in? Just the usual propaganda to get a bunch of regional pilots to salivate over going to mainline if the just grind it out for a few years. Then they realize they are stuck and a few years quickly becomes 10.
 
And to all those who don't think having TPIC matters much anymore, I read from someone that interviewed with Frontier, and the recruiter told him that they are "unofficially" beginning to require 1000 TPIC because they are anticipating upgrades to drop to 2 years in 2016. Now I admittedly don't know a whole lot about frontier, but I do think it is a point worth making. Things change rapidly in this industry. It is much better to have the TPIC than not to.
 
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