PSA New Hire FO Classes Suspended

dialen said:
Talked to an old student who works there said that the latest FO class that just started Last week had less then 8 people? Is it that short out there?
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I believe it was 7 actually, and maybe 1 DEC... We aren't attracting many more DECs and the pool of qualified applicants has pretty much dried up for the time being. To be honest, even if the new TA gets voted in and our interview turns into a flow, it still isn't going to be enough to attract the "1,000 new pilots over the next 2 years" the company wants to hire. The company is realistically going to have to come to the pilot group with some serious improvements to the contract and pay in order to remain competitive. A recruiter told me that at a recent job fair, PSA only had two applicants even drop off a resume. Two. And yet the company is sticking it's head in the sand and ignoring the coming $h1t Storm it is creating for itself. Unless you live in CLT, or one of the other PSA domiciles, I can't recommend coming here until things improve.

And that is exactly why I don't think the new TA deserves a "yes" vote. Because no matter what, the company is going to have to come back to us if they want to staff. Why accept a new TA when the company is outright ignoring half of the current contract when it benefits them? Why settle for less when we could get more? The language in the new TA has grey areas galore and is written so one-sided I find it hard to believe we will ever get above flowing 5 /month. ESPECIALLY not if we can't even staff. PSA will begin to bleed pilots in the next year, and won't be able to attract new hires unless the company makes some real changes. Which I fully expect they won't. This isn't the worst place to be, but there are certainly more attractive at the moment. We do have lots of aircraft yet to come, and upgrades are continuing. But all of that is contingent on the company being able to hire.
 
Something's not adding up.....I've heard two sides to the story.....they can't get enough people and people can't wait to get in? Just trying to make an educated choice in regionals. Not sure if psa is the place to apply to as it once was earlier in the year.
 
Lastly, my old student said CLT is unobtainable right now due to the fact CLT is over staffed and there is no FO movement right now??
 
dialen said:
Something's not adding up.....I've heard two sides to the story.....they can't get enough people and people can't wait to get in? Just trying to make an educated choice in regionals. Not sure if psa is the place to apply to as it once was earlier in the year.
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Oh don't get me wrong... Many have been applying. I heard they recently interviewed over 30 in a week and accepted less than 10. But they are now not accepting people they were accepting just 6 months ago. So I don't know why to make of that. But like I said, PSA has a good future, IF it can staff. Which right now, is becoming difficult for them.
 
dialen said:
Lastly, my old student said CLT is unobtainable right now due to the fact CLT is over staffed and there is no FO movement right now??
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I don't know if it is or isn't, I haven't looked at the recent bid awards. I know it has been taking longer and longer to get awarded CLT for new hires, but I would tack that up to the company not hiring FOs for a few months. New hires will still probably get awarded DAY out of training, and able to hold DAY, CVG, or TYS once off IOE.
 
dialen said:
So you have all those planes and deliverys due, no ATP ctp course, and you are turning people down in a shortage!?! You and my buddy may be right saying look else where :(
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We actually just got approved for our CTP course.

I can only guess that the hiring will begin in earnest again next year. But many (myself included) think the company should of never stopped hiring. They sort of lost the momentum. I can only tell you to not get too worried about where you want to go until you actually start interviewing. A lot can change quickly.
 
PSA has been approved by the FAA for a CTP course.

There is FO movement, but not as fast as it was. FO's at the bottom of the list probably move up 15 spots or so a month, if not more. I have been an FO for about a year, and move up 8-10 spots a month. There are about 120 Captains that are junior to me, mostly due to the DEC's, but the last several upgrade classes have been mostly senior FO's that are upgrading. Once we start upgrade classes of 15 people every 2 weeks, the movement will be much faster again.

All of the regionals have issues. I talk to the guys that I used to fly with in the 135 world, and flight instructing world, and it covers just about every regional. Each one seems to suck in its own way. Personally, I live in base, spent very little time on reserve, love the schedule flexibility, and like the guys that I fly with.

Is PSA a good company? Absolutely not. Are there good things about this company? Yup, there sure are.
 
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I cant imagine they will hire like they did early in the year, because of the gigantic bubble that produced in their training pipeline. I interview with 4 other guys, one guy no showed. So that would have been 6 people in one day. I know for a certain fact one guy did not get offered the job. Myself and 1 other got the offer, then I cant speak for the other two. The other two were both DEC eligible but had been out for a while, so they were wanting to come in FO and then upgrade at a later point. The guy who got turned down was a good guy, im not sure why they turned him down, but they did. They don't seem as desperate as people make them out to be. Part of me wonders if there is a reason for that. I had heard a rumor that AAG is now more active in how hiring is done. Maybe that's because they know a flow is coming and don't want PSA hiring toolbags??
 
chrisreedrules said:
I believe it was 7 actually, and maybe 1 DEC... We aren't attracting many more DECs and the pool of qualified applicants has pretty much dried up for the time being. To be honest, even if the new TA gets voted in and our interview turns into a flow, it still isn't going to be enough to attract the "1,000 new pilots over the next 2 years" the company wants to hire. The company is realistically going to have to come to the pilot group with some serious improvements to the contract and pay in order to remain competitive. A recruiter told me that at a recent job fair, PSA only had two applicants even drop off a resume. Two. And yet the company is sticking it's head in the sand and ignoring the coming $h1t Storm it is creating for itself. Unless you live in CLT, or one of the other PSA domiciles, I can't recommend coming here until things improve.

And that is exactly why I don't think the new TA deserves a "yes" vote. Because no matter what, the company is going to have to come back to us if they want to staff. Why accept a new TA when the company is outright ignoring half of the current contract when it benefits them? Why settle for less when we could get more? The language in the new TA has grey areas galore and is written so one-sided I find it hard to believe we will ever get above flowing 5 /month. ESPECIALLY not if we can't even staff. PSA will begin to bleed pilots in the next year, and won't be able to attract new hires unless the company makes some real changes. Which I fully expect they won't. This isn't the worst place to be, but there are certainly more attractive at the moment. We do have lots of aircraft yet to come, and upgrades are continuing. But all of that is contingent on the company being able to hire.
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Taking your advice and voting it down delays career progression for a lot of pilots and stalls your climb up the ranks. The company does not have come back and negotiate but the new agreement guarantees they will meet again in June to discuss further increases. Trust me when I say the MEC, NC, and ALPA legal know more about this than you do. Getting a guaranteed job at AA is step one of many steps we will be able to negotiate over the coming years, just have some patience and trust what the union is telling you. I just find it funny when line pilots (especially new ones) try to "educate" everyone on negotiating tactics such as "we should just demand more." And trust me the problems we are having at PSA are nothing compared to the problems other carriers are facing like parking aircraft, 9 year upgrades, no guaranteed job at a major, etc.
 
As an outsider looking in, I will submit my opinion since this is a public forum after all. I think @chrisreedrules is just butt hurt because PSA isn't the sunshine and unicorns he thought it would be. He was sold on and/or envisioned using that SAP like it's some sort of magic wand to get whatever schedule he pleases and never sit reserve out of new hire. Now that he's a senior FO with 6 months of seniority, his outlook is different on the whole thing. He's gone from being excited about PSA to the vote no before the details come out crowd. He has become the grumpy work work work captain. "AND I VOTED NO...LOA 72 SEALED THE DEAL FOR ME!!!" guy.

The thing is, this was me when I was new to 121. It will take some time, but things will become clearer eventually.
 
motormadness24 said:
As an outsider looking in, I will submit my opinion since this is a public forum after all. I think @chrisreedrules is just butt hurt because PSA isn't the sunshine and unicorns he thought it would be. He was sold on and/or envisioned using that SAP like it's some sort of magic wand to get whatever schedule he pleases and never sit reserve out of new hire. Now that he's a senior FO with 6 months of seniority, his outlook is different on the whole thing. He's gone from being excited about PSA to the vote no before the details come out crowd. He has become the grumpy work work work captain. "AND I VOTED NO...LOA 72 SEALED THE DEAL FOR ME!!!" guy.

The thing is, this was me when I was new to 121. It will take some time, but things will become clearer eventually.
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I didn't think PSA was going to be sunshine and unicorns. I came in eyes wide open and it was the lesser of several evils for me at the time. That being said, much has changed since I first got on property. And not necessarily for the better. If the company would simply follow the contract, you would t be hearing a peep out of me. I just don't think we should be voting on a flow TA before other things are settled first. If the company already doesn't follow the contract at its own whim, why would this flow be any different?
 
cybourg12 said:
Taking your advice and voting it down delays career progression for a lot of pilots and stalls your climb up the ranks. The company does not have come back and negotiate but the new agreement guarantees they will meet again in June to discuss further increases. Trust me when I say the MEC, NC, and ALPA legal know more about this than you do. Getting a guaranteed job at AA is step one of many steps we will be able to negotiate over the coming years, just have some patience and trust what the union is telling you. I just find it funny when line pilots (especially new ones) try to "educate" everyone on negotiating tactics such as "we should just demand more." And trust me the problems we are having at PSA are nothing compared to the problems other carriers are facing like parking aircraft, 9 year upgrades, no guaranteed job at a major, etc.
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I was impetuous and made a poor word choice in my hastiness. It is not my place to "educate" anyone on anything. I explained myself before as I am doing here and now. Despite the fact that I am new, I do bring up good points. And as yet, no one has a good answer for them.
 
cybourg12 said:
Taking your advice and voting it down delays career progression for a lot of pilots and stalls your climb up the ranks. The company does not have come back and negotiate but the new agreement guarantees they will meet again in June to discuss further increases. Trust me when I say the MEC, NC, and ALPA legal know more about this than you do. Getting a guaranteed job at AA is step one of many steps we will be able to negotiate over the coming years, just have some patience and trust what the union is telling you. I just find it funny when line pilots (especially new ones) try to "educate" everyone on negotiating tactics such as "we should just demand more." And trust me the problems we are having at PSA are nothing compared to the problems other carriers are facing like parking aircraft, 9 year upgrades, no guaranteed job at a major, etc.
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chrisreedrules said:
I was impetuous and made a poor word choice in my hastiness. It is not my place to "educate" anyone on anything. I explained myself before as I am doing here and now. Despite the fact that I am new, I do bring up good points. And as yet, no one has a good answer for them.
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Don't listen to cybourg. She actually has no 121 experience. Came in and upgraded when she got her time. She is a riddler
 
cybourg12 said:
Taking your advice and voting it down delays career progression for a lot of pilots and stalls your climb up the ranks. The company does not have come back and negotiate but the new agreement guarantees they will meet again in June to discuss further increases. Trust me when I say the MEC, NC, and ALPA legal know more about this than you do. Getting a guaranteed job at AA is step one of many steps we will be able to negotiate over the coming years, just have some patience and trust what the union is telling you. I just find it funny when line pilots (especially new ones) try to "educate" everyone on negotiating tactics such as "we should just demand more." And trust me the problems we are having at PSA are nothing compared to the problems other carriers are facing like parking aircraft, 9 year upgrades, no guaranteed job at a major, etc.
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Honestly, we could argue back and forth about a yes or no vote. I feel strongly for my argument, and I'm sure you do for yours. I speak from negotiating experience and I don't know about you. None of us will progress up the ranks of we can't hire. And that is going to become a paramount issue in the coming months. So no, I don't think it deserves a "Yes" vote and I think this TA is pointless. The company WILL come back in much less than 9 months or PSA will become stagnant and start bleeding more FOs than it already is. And they will come back with more.
 
cybourg12 said:
Taking your advice and voting it down delays career progression for a lot of pilots and stalls your climb up the ranks. The company does not have come back and negotiate but the new agreement guarantees they will meet again in June to discuss further increases. Trust me when I say the MEC, NC, and ALPA legal know more about this than you do. Getting a guaranteed job at AA is step one of many steps we will be able to negotiate over the coming years, just have some patience and trust what the union is telling you. I just find it funny when line pilots (especially new ones) try to "educate" everyone on negotiating tactics such as "we should just demand more." And trust me the problems we are having at PSA are nothing compared to the problems other carriers are facing like parking aircraft, 9 year upgrades, no guaranteed job at a major, etc.
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Yeah that^^
It is not the perfect deal, it is however a step in the right direction. Furthermore, we gave up NOTHING to get this one, albeit little, step. How do you eat an elephant?? One bite at a time.
 
Ziggyfuzz said:
Yeah that^^
It is not the perfect deal, it is however a step in the right direction. Furthermore, we gave up NOTHING to get this one, albeit little, step. How do you eat an elephant?? One bite at a time.
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We aren't resolving issues with the current contract. Big issues. That to me seems like we are putting the cart before the horse. And as I have stated before, this TA will do absolutely nothing to help retain and attract pilots. And that will become an even bigger issue in the coming months. Holding out now will mean they are more likely to come back in less than a year to offer something more. But hey, I get it. We are giving up "nothing" so that automatically means it should get voted in right?
 
@chrisreedrules, since you are vocal on the company not following the contract, could you provide specific examples? Also, may I suggest helping your fellow pilot group by doing some ALPA work? Perhaps the contract enforcement committee?
 
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