PSA CRJ-700 AA midair collision

NovemberEcho said:
We have been trying to get the B lowered to 1400’ (currently 3000) west of CDW and north of TEB to protect the TEB 19 final for decades but always told no. The amount of VFR’s who cut through TEB’s final at 2,000 is ridiculous and we have very very little room to manuever around them because EWR is above at 3k and LGA/HPN traffic is just east of TEB. I’m honestly amazed nothing has happened there yet.
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The Bravo around here goes down to 1200'. And, in theory, we aren't supposed to be below 1000' where those sectional charts are yellow, so... yeah.

Making the airspace more restrictive would be fine in theory, but approach doesn't have the staffing to deal with the traffic that's currently using the Bravo around here as it is. And as much as AOPA might complain, the Coast Guard and Air Force would probably be even less happy here.
 
derg said:
I wonder what the normal rate/year of RA’s in the radius of an airport?

But at home point, it appears either that corridor needs to be adjusted or the CTL needs to go away.
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I agree. I’m also concerned that that’s all that will happen. DCA was where it finally happened but there have been more than enough close calls nationwide to show that this isn’t an isolated issue. Right now the airspace system is trying to cram 10 gallons of (stuff) into a 5 gallon bucket. Solving the final hole in the cheese and ignoring everything leading up to it is convenient and will cause this to happen again.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
How do you think we fly near KMIA or KFLL? Take a look at the terminal area chart down there. Below 400' is pretty normal following the shoreline by FLL. And that feels to high if you are paying attention.
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Or JFK, LGA, and TEB. The VFR routes around NYC seem to me to be pretty well organized and very safe. Without them, the area would be oversaturated by VFR requests. Occasionally while landing the 31s at JFK that beach transition traffic will cause a TCAS alert that will trigger certain carriers to go around, but so far that hasn't made the news. Most carriers are fine with a cautionary. In the 18 years I have been paying attention I can only remember 3 high-profile incidents involving the VFR corridors around NYC and only one involving a mid-air (between a PA32 and a climbing helicopter). That is fairly impressinve considering the volume. After the midair they changed the rules to segregate the helos and fixed wing aircraft. Cory Lidle and an instructor hit a manhattan high rise trying to turn a cirrus around in the east river corridor. That resulted in a ban of fixed wings not alighting on the east river without an ATC clearance from LGA. The only other one I can think of was a tour helicopter whose passenger pulled the fuel cuttoff.

Has anyone ever flown in the vicinity of Niagra Falls VFR? That is a place I am surprised hasn't made the news. The point is, flying VFR is still very safe, even in congested areas. When stuff happens it is usually due to someone not abiding the rules or following directions. Those causes apply to all aviation equally.
 
pwttogfk said:
I agree. I’m also concerned that that’s all that will happen. DCA was where it finally happened but there have been more than enough close calls nationwide to show that this isn’t an isolated issue. Right now the airspace system is trying to cram 10 gallons of (stuff) into a 5 gallon bucket. Solving the final hole in the cheese and ignoring everything leading up to it is convenient and will cause this to happen again.
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This wasn’t the “thing” I thought we would have, air-traffic wise (I thought it would have been a runway incursion, honestly). But I agree.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
below 1000' where those sectional charts are yellow
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Just looked up the chart user's guide. That's a change I didn't realize happened. For years the yellow was depicted as an area of prominent lighting at night (city lights) but wasn't specifically called populated as it is today, however the font and size of the city name has always been correlated to city size. It was ambiguous by design, and felt barnstormer-ish recognizing city lights as part of pilotage, the FAA never used density to define population to the benefit of airmen, but now makes me wonder when the change occurred - maybe due to some high profile incidents with bush pilots?
 
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Just some miscellaneous other bits since @NovemberEcho thought it would happen in ‘his’ sky (not a great feeling when you go to work):

1. I want/need people to have confidence in the air transportation system for obvious reasons.
2. I think there does need to be some reasoned, sober, and rational debate and discussion between professionals/practitioners/etc. about where the problems are, and that people who have the power to change the system to fix the problems should listen.
3. The debate in (2) may not inspire the confidence required for (1) if it’s done publicly or loudly.

I dunno. Coffee, please.
 
roundout said:
Clearly, but that in no way, shape, or form, indicates that there isn't room to make the system safer.
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I agree, there is always room to make things safer, but the way the discussion was going at the time I made the post was closing GA airports in the vicinity of class B airspace. That's the late-stage capitalism solution. Like leveraged buyouts.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
How do you think we fly near KMIA or KFLL? Take a look at the terminal area chart down there. Below 400' is pretty normal following the shoreline by FLL. And that feels to high if you are paying attention.
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Is there 100ft of planned separation? Lol

We fix the system over time. This accident, public outcry, and that Musky fellow will accelerate that change. For better or worse. Corridors like you described and procedures are able to be changed. We don't sacrifice GA, the sky belongs to a Cessna as much as it does a 747 or F16, so long as they stay in their lane. Dear God people are wild these days.

Shame on you guys for spreading this on a well trafficed aviation site.
 
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