PSA CRJ-700 AA midair collision

Going through all the stages with this. But this is also lazy phraseology, “do you have the CRJ in site”? What CRJ? Which one? Where should I be looking ? In the plane that just took off? The lights I see way out there in the distance? A better call could have saved everyone, not sure what is required of them there legally, but dang. What say you ATCers ?
 
Kingairer said:
Going through all the stages with this. But this is also lazy phraseology, “do you have the CRJ in site”? What CRJ? Which one? Where should I be looking ? In the plane that just took off? The lights I see way out there in the distance? A better call could have saved everyone, not sure what is required of them there legally, but dang. What say you ATCers ?
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That also crossed my mind as well. Looking at where the CRJ was relative to the Blackhawk at the time of the call 15 seconds to impact vs the other landing traffic and the fact the CRJ was about to change course, no doubt the call could have been more specific and called better attention to the imminent threat (not sure if that is required at all). Regardless of who is ultimately at fault. "Swiss cheese". You need a lot of holes.
 
FlyingAccountant said:
We finally ran out of luck.
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This was my thought too—I've had an unspecified 'bad feeling' since 2017 or so, actually. Other thoughts offline or via private channels (they are not specific to the accident at hand).

To absent friends, and hear us when we lift our prayer for those in peril in the air.
 
Sounds about time DOD formalises night restrictions flying against and crossing descending AC on the low levels. There were alternative routes that would have them cross departing AC instead with greater safety margins.
 
jhugz said:
While I'm hopeful for survivors, I got to say, I'm very doubtful after watching the videos. I hope I'm wrong. What a terrible, tragic, event.
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Both airplanes went down hard. Even if someone survived the g-force impact, survival in 30 degree something water would be measured in minutes, not hours. It’s been over 7 hours now. Sadly, it’s safe to presume we have lost 67 souls total.
 
Poor guy :(




IMG_3309.jpeg
 
Kingairer said:
Going through all the stages with this. But this is also lazy phraseology, “do you have the CRJ in site”? What CRJ? Which one? Where should I be looking ? In the plane that just took off? The lights I see way out there in the distance? A better call could have saved everyone, not sure what is required of them there legally, but dang. What say you ATCers ?
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These hueys cut through there all the time so there is most likely a comfort factor the controllers have with those guys having a heightened situational awareness. You can tell the controller is uncomfortable with where he is but human factors are he believes it'll be just like the 1000 other times he's trusted the Huey pilots to be on the same page.... Until they're not. Something that will be awful to live with.
 
Kingairer said:
AA is testing CDTI and ADSB, it’s very helpful. This happened so quickly, I don’t know if it would’ve changed anything.
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I’d like to think they would have seen the helicopter coming down River and had the picture in their heads mentally if/when they got the circle to land clearance. I’ve only been to Reagan once though, so my mental map is not great.
 
cmac88 said:
These hueys cut through there all the time so there is most likely a comfort factor the controllers have with those guys having a heightened situational awareness. You can tell the controller is uncomfortable with where he is but human factors are he believes it'll be just like the 1000 other times he's trusted the Huey pilots to be on the same page.... Until they're not. Something that will be awful to live with.
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Huey?
 
Kingairer said:
Going through all the stages with this. But this is also lazy phraseology, “do you have the CRJ in site”? What CRJ? Which one? Where should I be looking ? In the plane that just took off? The lights I see way out there in the distance? A better call could have saved everyone, not sure what is required of them there legally, but dang. What say you ATCers ?
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Most controllers have a poor understanding of how difficult it is to visually acquire and avoid traffic. Radar controllers don’t see aircraft at all, of course, and in the tower cab, you get to know exactly where to look to correlate the picture on your radar display with what you’re seeing outside - and then get to subconsciously thinking it must be that easy and fast for the pilots as well.

“The CRJ on final for 33 out of (altitude)” may’ve been better, but nighttime visual separation below 10,000 just doesn’t work, imo. Few people outside of DCA certified controllers are qualified to offer a fully informed opinion, but personally I would not have been comfortable issuing that clearance. Day or night.
 
Just got into Seoul and the last three hours of the flight was just a string of unanswereable questions from flight attendants and passengers.

The Koreans are off the cusps of their own aviation disaster as well so it hits especially hard.

Be safe out there.

Did all of JC’s PSA guys check in?

If you guys need to chat, remember we have our weekly JC Zoom Happy Hour where you can flow in and flow out at your leisure. I should be on in early evening PHX time on Saturday. Diamond Dogs arrrr arroooOoo.
 
cmac88 said:
I've seen a few close calls between helicopters and aircraft at dca I feel like. Any thoughts as to any reason TCAS would not have gone off?
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I had an extremely close call there in the early 90’s, that had the media got a hold of….

My heart goes out to to families of all involved. The suck.
 
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