Power Off 180s

AA34

Well-Known Member
Anyone got tried and a true tips for power off 180s? I’ve got my CSEL coming up and have got worse at them over time somehow, usually being fast and high floating past the landing point. Thinking I need to turn base later than I am just worried about getting too far out. I’m in a 172 if that matters..
 
Make your aim point 1/3 of the way down the runway, that will alleviate your fears of coming in short. And, if you are running out of energy, you can use ground effect to boost your glide to the aim point. Aside from that, it's just practice. Try to have a consistent setup so the only variable is the wind.
 
I'd say be conservative on base and if your high, full flaps and slip it. Get comfortable with an aggressive slip. The limitation on the flaps has the word "avoid". I would argue that a power off 180 is training for an emergency and you're good to do what you need to do with the flaps. In my experience, you can feel a shaking in the elevator through the yoke while slipping with full flaps. Not a big deal.
 
Tip #1: Make sure you go far enough away from the runway before turning base.

Ever notice who many times you are full flaps and slipping hard to make your point but even with all the drag you can muster you overshoot? It's consistently a problem with students doing power off 180s "making the runway" but blowing past their point. Try a few where you deliberately push yourself a bit further away than you're used to. FYI most glider landing accidents are due to landing too long and running into the far trees vs. coming up short.

Tip #2: Slips > Flaps

If you are stuck in a Cessna with electric flaps, they just don't move fast enough to manage your energy (Piper's hand brake flaps are much better for this). You can add or remove drag very quickly and easily if you are using the forward slip. Try some power off 180s with no flaps and only use the slip. You'll find that it's a lot more effective than you think.

Tip #3: This doesn't have to be a full stall landing.

Normal landings should be following a nice stable approach with the mains touching down as the wing stalls. Power off 180s are the time to use all your "dirty tricks" that aren't pretty but make your point. As long as it's not a Navy Carrier landing that shakes the DPE's dentures out of his mouth "touching down in the selected point" is all that matters.
 
Within reason, you can work off being high/too much energy. Conversely, nobody has ever created energy from a deficit in an unpowered airplane. Error on the side of being a little tight, and work it off, as others have said, in a hard slip/whatever your plane loves to dump altitude if req'd. Like USMC said, don't overdo this bit of advice.....there are positions that you could never land from due to excessive altitude/airspeed/combo.
 
If you’re too high, don’t push down. Pull back and slow it up. Within reason, obvs. Another trick I saw used was to just dump full flaps as soon as you had the speed, eliminate your configuration as a variable. In conjunction fly the maneuver fast, at Vfe, that way you always have the ability to stretch the glide by slowing to Vg.
 
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If you’re too high, don’t push down. Pull back and slow it up. Within reason, obvs

yep,
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As others have said, better to have too much energy than not enough, and slips are your friend.

I will add that I find power-off 180s a little challenging in 172s as they glide well enough to keep you honest in your power management (you can't just immediately point it at the numbers and slip off everything you don't need). So I'd say give yourself some no-pressure approaches to get a real feel for how much energy the 172 has in a power-off 180, and how long it takes to dissipate. That means: don't worry so much about the aim point initially. Just fly the energy you have to see how it works out, then iterate from there. Once you can consistently get the plane within, say, +/- 400' from your aim point, *then* you start integrating the "cheats" to really dial it in.

And if you start to find yourself pushing the limits to make your aim point, take a step back and do some more no-pressure approaches; you're probably forcing the issue when you should just be managing your energy better.
 
^ yep. The solution to this conundrum is just doing a bunch of them without FAA jeopardy in the mix, and getting a good feel for what your plane does. It's as simple as that. Your instructor should understand this.....reps....reps.....more reps.
 
172……trim full nose up with power off, and the thing will glide stable at about 65-70 kts, reducing your workload as you spiral down to your landing point. Just understand that if you aren’t going to land for training and are planning a go around, that that same trim is going to have to be taken out when power is applied, and if there’s no electric trim, it may take a short about of time to do so manually.
 
Definitely understand the difference between a C-172 and a Piper Arrow (throw the rock out and chase it etc). Also be aware the DPE might take you to a narrow strip to mess with your depth perception. Do whatever it takes to make the Rwy.
 
PS. Don't stress. You'll get it nailed sooner or later. Look at all of the jokers on here who snuck past the Gummint, somehow. I'm Exhibit A for the Prosecution.
Me circa 2006: hand flying single engine NDB circle to lands in a Duchess with no HSI
Me now: If I have to fly this circling approach with no moving map so help me I will drop the ladder and climb right out this sim
 
Me circa 2006: hand flying single engine NDB circle to lands in a Duchess with no HSI
Me now: If I have to fly this circling approach with no moving map so help me I will drop the ladder and climb right out this sim
Probably told this one before, but it goes with the theme. I pulled up under the ridiculous awning at Wilson Air Memphis in, I dunno, 2009 or so in my absolutely beat-to-• MU-2. And there was a gorgeous, pristine Falcon 900 sitting under there just preening its feathers. So I sort of hobble out of the crapbox and start walking in to the FBO (looking homeless AF) so I can sign the fuel ticket and get exiled to the litrully broken futon in the back room. But on the way the F/O of the Falcon button-holes me and says: "hey. I know that plane. I used to fly it". And because the paint has been put on with the lightest of brushes, we walk around the airplane and you actually CAN still see the "Gale Force Cargo" paint, underneath. Dude says "Man, I miss those days. You'll never be a better pilot than you are right now". I was like "yeah, man, this is great. Wanna trade?"

He left. Didn't seem interested in the Trade.

That's more or less my view on these things.
 
Probably told this one before, but it goes with the theme. I pulled up under the ridiculous awning at Wilson Air Memphis in, I dunno, 2009 or so in my absolutely beat-to-• MU-2. And there was a gorgeous, pristine Falcon 900 sitting under there just preening its feathers. So I sort of hobble out of the crapbox and start walking in to the FBO (looking homeless AF) so I can sign the fuel ticket and get exiled to the litrully broken futon in the back room. But on the way the F/O of the Falcon button-holes me and says: "hey. I know that plane. I used to fly it". And because the paint has been put on with the lightest of brushes, we walk around the airplane and you actually CAN still see the "Gale Force Cargo" paint, underneath. Dude says "Man, I miss those days. You'll never be a better pilot than you are right now". I was like "yeah, man, this is great. Wanna trade?"

He left. Didn't seem interested in the Trade.

That's more or less my view on these things.

You can always go back to Dumont if you miss crappy old aero devices...
 
Anyone got tried and a true tips for power off 180s? I’ve got my CSEL coming up and have got worse at them over time somehow, usually being fast and high floating past the landing point. Thinking I need to turn base later than I am just worried about getting too far out. I’m in a 172 if that matters..
The easy answer without being there to watch you is to just shift your aimpoint. Aim shorter than what you are to account for the float. Remember the reason you are floating is you are carrying to much energy over the threshold. Also remember that day to day conditions will affect your performance. Bigger headwind = turning sooner. No wind = turning later.

172s are the worst for these because they glide relatively well. I did all mine in a Bonanza. Thing sinks like a rock.
 
I love power off 180's. That maneuver was the only fun thing IMO about CML. I much preferred instrument to commercial. Anyway I would pull the power at the numbers. Kept the wing clean till I turned base. Knowing when to turn base was mostly just spit balling it. And really knowing your plane. I was in a DA40, so we had a looooong wing and could really glide. If I was on point and the picture looked good outside I'd just keep it coming down and put full flaps in at short final. If I was high as others suggested I'd slip the bitch and get her down. Also choosing your landing point is very important. I always chose the 1000 footer markings.
 
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