ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
There’s so many - that or drunk posting
Power Off 180s
- Thread starter AA34
- Start date
schloopy
Well-Known Member
As other have mentioned, you really can't plan on a go-around. The ACS is pretty clear about that. The deer on the runway thing happens but I only had a student encounter that maybe twice over 2 years of instructing.
Someone else also mentioned that you are not going for a picture perfect landing, which is true but again you have to be very careful about this. The lovely authors of the ACS indeed thought of this copout ahead of time and threw this bad boy in the last skill line for the task: "Touch down at a proper pitch attitude, within 200 feet beyond or on the specified point with no side drift and with the airplane’s longitudinal axis aligned with and over the runway centerline or landing path, as applicable."
Plenty to consider there but mainly the proper pitch attitude, meaning you cant force a flat or bounced landing if you've still got energy. I know of multiple students who did the entire maneuver right but forced it down before the plane was ready, and you can't perform an objectively unsafe landing on a commercial checkride and expect to get away with it, in any context. The couple of students who were able to get away with a go-around, did so because they flew the proper profile, did everything right, and for whatever reason caught a gust or whatnot in ground effect that ballooned their energy, and then and only then they elected to go-around rather than force the plane down and bounce it. In those cases the DPE was essentially forced to admit there was nothing the applicant could have done better. I would also argue there's something to be said about just landing long and explaining your thought process but again these strategies are not supported in the ACS.
Keep in mind these experiences took place in windshear Hellscapes (IWA, SDL, DVT, APA, BJC...) so outside of very challenging conditions, don't even expect the leeway I described here.
Someone else also mentioned that you are not going for a picture perfect landing, which is true but again you have to be very careful about this. The lovely authors of the ACS indeed thought of this copout ahead of time and threw this bad boy in the last skill line for the task: "Touch down at a proper pitch attitude, within 200 feet beyond or on the specified point with no side drift and with the airplane’s longitudinal axis aligned with and over the runway centerline or landing path, as applicable."
Plenty to consider there but mainly the proper pitch attitude, meaning you cant force a flat or bounced landing if you've still got energy. I know of multiple students who did the entire maneuver right but forced it down before the plane was ready, and you can't perform an objectively unsafe landing on a commercial checkride and expect to get away with it, in any context. The couple of students who were able to get away with a go-around, did so because they flew the proper profile, did everything right, and for whatever reason caught a gust or whatnot in ground effect that ballooned their energy, and then and only then they elected to go-around rather than force the plane down and bounce it. In those cases the DPE was essentially forced to admit there was nothing the applicant could have done better. I would also argue there's something to be said about just landing long and explaining your thought process but again these strategies are not supported in the ACS.
Keep in mind these experiences took place in windshear Hellscapes (IWA, SDL, DVT, APA, BJC...) so outside of very challenging conditions, don't even expect the leeway I described here.
"Not that I'm thinking about buying an airplane! Fiscal insanity! I'd never use it! Money pit! Etc. Etc."
PRECISELY.
"It's a desire to utilize skills built up over a lifetime and which are basically surplus to requirements at this point."
SADLY, 80% of big iron are still going to flare at 200 AGL, just add power to recover from a stall, and not know how to file their own flight plan.
Massive bonus points for "surplus to requirements". You reckon most airline hires after, say, 2008 ever knew there used to be requirements?
Last edited:
Sorry, amigo. Meant completely sardonically.
Your info was spot on. In this post and many others.
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
side note here (and I don’t necessarily disagree with anything you said, but I would like to add something…
Ideologically I’m opposed to this sort of thinking and don’t think we should be training like this. You always plan one.
Every landing ends in a go around and every approach ends in a missed. If you get to land you’re lucky… been burned before and then you’re playing elbows and a-holes trying to unscrew yourself.
philosophically, you have to be primed for the miss/go around, then if you land
schloopy
Well-Known Member
Absolutely, it’s a frustrating topic as an instructor because you have to be very careful with how you explain things. Personally I teach the maneuver as an emergency skill, and only within maybe a week or two of the checkride will I start to emphasize the tolerance elements.
