dasleben
That's just, like, your opinion, man
I agree, I've seen that first-hand actually. I think Ornstein's failure to do exactly that, and leading his company into that downward spiral, should be a lesson to other airlines.
PNCL Files Chapter 11
- Thread starter The Juice
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I agree, I've seen that first-hand actually. I think Ornstein's failure to do exactly that, and leading his company into that downward spiral, should be a lesson to other airlines.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
Dumbasses.
It just amazes me today how much corporate America focuses on running what are basically giant investment scams rather than businesses that are good at what they do.
dasleben
That's just, like, your opinion, man
Skyway's attitude was "Why give you guys a better contract when there's a stack of resumes on the desk?"
We hate to admit it, but it's an extremely valid argument from management's perspective.
We all just have to give it time. Eventually the tide will change. They're free to run the company any which way they want, until they can't staff their jets and start losing large sums of money. That's on them.
WIPilot
Well-Known Member
We hate to admit it, but it's an extremely valid argument from management's perspective.
We all just have to give it time. Eventually the tide will change. They're free to run the company any which way they want, until they can't staff their jets and start losing large sums of money. That's on them.
when they start loosing large sums of money they will just use it to rape the contract again.
dasleben
That's just, like, your opinion, man
Yep, it's a pretty crappy cycle. Management is often too dense or too stubborn to work with their labor, but the unions can also be just as complicit. How many times have we all heard "Burn it down!" from unionistas at companies losing wads of cash? No offense meant to those who work for AMR, but the company is losing billions per year, and yet I hear nothing but "Full pay to the last day." Does that help any? No, it doesn't, and makes the union just as culpable as management.
Before anyone thinks I'm anti-union, nothing could be further from the truth. I'm a member of the IBT, volunteer on a committee, and pay my dues every month. The point I'm making is that both sides need to knock off the posturing and work together to improve profitability and working conditions. One side being pitted against the other is absolutely unhealthy for a successful business. Some of the happiest pilots I know are working at non-union shops (I should add, this does not mean that all non-union pilots are happy). Non-union not because of a political belief against them, but because the pilot group and management can work together effectively enough to the point that both sides meet their goals. Unfortunately, this type of environment is rare in the airlines.
Gonzo
Well-Known Member
You hear "Full pay to the last day" from AMR unions because we are following the lead of upper management. As the company was losing a ton money they kept getting bigger and bigger bonuses. Hell at one point they made it so they could be the worst preforming airline and still get the highest bonus of all upper management outside of Delta.
Why should I care if the guys driving the company don't care? Without having them on broad there is nothing the employes can do to save the company.
dasleben
That's just, like, your opinion, man
I'm not criticizing your pilot group or union for doing so, but when both sides don't care, well, how is it good business?
Dasleben-
Having been through a couple contract negotiations and a bankruptcy, think of it like four, somewhat mutually exclusive different groups.
The employees
The union
The company
Management
So when you're hearing "burn it down", it's from the employees and not necessarily the union.
When you hear "We'll shut it down!", it's management not necessarily the company.
Anything truly "official" comes from the company or the union.
Gonzo can scream "burn it down" all he wants and he's not speaking for the union.
Management can take all the bonuses they want in bankruptcy, not because they're necessarily entitled to it, it's because they have a weak board of directors and wussified shareholders.
Ehh, nevermind. You're probably trolling again. Sorry for taking the bait..
Having been through a couple contract negotiations and a bankruptcy, think of it like four, somewhat mutually exclusive different groups.
The employees
The union
The company
Management
So when you're hearing "burn it down", it's from the employees and not necessarily the union.
When you hear "We'll shut it down!", it's management not necessarily the company.
Anything truly "official" comes from the company or the union.
Gonzo can scream "burn it down" all he wants and he's not speaking for the union.
Management can take all the bonuses they want in bankruptcy, not because they're necessarily entitled to it, it's because they have a weak board of directors and wussified shareholders.
Ehh, nevermind. You're probably trolling again. Sorry for taking the bait..
dasleben
That's just, like, your opinion, man
Not trolling. Simply, an alternate point of view. Maybe I'll take a break and let you all agree to agree.
EDIT: I'd like to add that my viewpoint comes from having dealt with union leadership who was more bent on taking the company to the cleaners than getting a fair contract that would also maintain profitability. I recall the phrase on the conference call from our EXCO chairman was "If they fold, screw it, I'll go to Southern."
Maurus
The Great Gazoo
considering all the qualified people out there these days I wouldn't be surprised for Major airline contract negotiations to get harder for this same reason.Skyway's attitude was "Why give you guys a better contract when there's a stack of resumes on the desk?"
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Every single major airline in the country could make that same argument too. Even after AA's post bankruptcy pay rates, there will be no shortage of resumes from regionals and the military.Skyway's attitude was "Why give you guys a better contract when there's a stack of resumes on the desk?"
LaserRacer
ALT SEL selector
So no paystub today? Glad to see the company is taking the whole payroll thing seriously. I also like how the March per diem still hasn't posted on the crew site.
TristarJS30
Well-Known Member
Payday is Monday (the 16th)
LaserRacer
ALT SEL selector
I was thinking it was the 15th for some reason... guess I'm a little trigger happy after so many payroll screwups lately.
ClarkGriswold
Non Nutritive Cereal Varnish Engineer
Letter sent, see ya guys and good luck with everything!
TUCKnTRUCK
That guy
Payday is the 16th, but often they can't deposit the funds on the weekend, so it processes on Friday, with the pay stub showing up at some point on Friday.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Good luck man.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
All I can say is, if they jack up my paycheck on the 16th.....I'm screwed about twelve different ways if it isn't fixed by the 17th. See, since I know 9E is completely jacked, I give myself an extra day on auto-debiting things like my mortgage, car payment and student loans....
ctab5060X
Well-Known Member
If it is jacked up... I say forget picketing, let's storm the castle!