Please Help: Another OWI (DUI) Thread

[1wrangler]

Its not about wanting an FMS and I have asked though nobody has responded yet how say a chieftan job could possibly compare to someone flyng a CRJ? For someone starting out its not about a freight job not being worth anything but that its that comparatively weaker and un-competitive. Again if someone can fill this in then please do.

Charter/EMS companies love Love LOVE pilots with freight experience. In fact, I've noticed experience requirements for EMS jobs which include considerable single pilot 135 IFR time near the top of their list. The jet charter operator I work for loves to hire freight guys. Nearly all of the pilots I work with have prior freight experience. I'd put money on a freight guy getting hired before a regional FO at my current shop any day (all else equal, of course). If you really want to get technical, you are correct in saying that a chieftain job probably won't measure up crj experience. The thing is, most chieftain jobs normally lead to Beech 99, 1900, and Metro jobs very quickly. That turbo prop experience is what is going to put you ahead of regional FOs, unless you want to go to a major, which you said you didn't.

You are correct that a dui is a major hurdle. However, your don't seem to be embracing the opportunities that are very available to you. In the thread where you announced your ATP completion, it looked like someone was ready to help you get a freight job and the location and pay for that job must be what this is all about. Networking at NBAA was a great idea, but did you really expect your resume to impress anyone there at this point? I bet if you had just a few years of freight experience added to that resume you would've had a lot more interest from those you approached at NBAA.

Just to clarify, the attitude thing I mentioned earlier had to do with you feeling a piston twin job was beneath you. With 50 hrs of multi time, it most certainly isn't. In fact, you quite possible aren't even insurable at the operations you were hoping to get on with at NBAA. Also, employers really don't like people who feel there is work which is beneath them. They need people who are willing to do the job. They need people who do what it takes.

I really don't mean for any of this to come across as an attack on you, it certainly isn't. I just hoped to point out some things that are very obvious to me and hopefully make you realize you can pick yourself up from this. It's just been a little frustrating because you're letting the airline rejection make you feel like it's all over. Idk, maybe you've been on APC too much lately? Seriously, if you want to make a career out of aviation, you just have to make it happen. The people here are giving you the advice you need, now the ball is in your court.

 

[MikeOH58]

Not sure about the attitude either. Im saying this is the response that I have gotten so far or lack there of and its not good. In response to the OP this is my story so dont know how that makes my attitude poor but in the past month since getting the ATP and nothing has come out of it.

Its not about wanting an FMS and I have asked though nobody has responded yet how say a cheiftan job could possibly compare to someone flyng a CRJ? For someone starting out its not about a freight job not being worth anything but that its that comparatively weaker and un-competitive and hence since the regionals are apparently hurting you should be able to get in there but not if you have a record. Again if someone can fill this in then please do.
The point again being that as far as I have seen so far its a dui is a career death sentence. thats all.

I don't know how else to say it…So you have your ATP? Big freaking deal! Every primary rating + CFI's are far more difficult then the ATP check IMO. All an ATP tells me is that you have committed a small (relative) but significant amount of time into your craft, and you were able to demonstrate minimum professional pilot standards defined by the PTS on a checkride. Congrats, but a fresh ATP entitles you to nothing. It's like a second semester undergrad majoring in pre-med complaining that he/she hasn't been accepted to medical school yet!

No one is knocking down the door for fresh ATP's with 50 hours of multi. For someone with 1,500 TT and 50 multi to make it into a decent part 91 department, they either know the right person or are just plain lucky.

You say you have no interest in the majors, yet you knock the experience and value of a freight job by saying it doesn't compare to someone flying a CRJ? huuuuuuuh??? 121 is it's own beast and produces some of the worlds most talented and professional pilots, but it doesn't necessarily provide you with the skill and experience to meet the demands of Part 91 corporate aviation. Of course there are many 121 pilots that make the switch, but I don't think anyone on here is going to argue that a 135 freight dawg's experience is not more in line with the demands and challenges of business aviation.

Goodluck and I hope you don't give up.

 

[bc2209]

Charter/EMS companies love Love LOVE pilots with freight experience. In fact, I've noticed experience requirements for EMS jobs which include considerable single pilot 135 IFR time near the top of their list. The jet charter operator I work for loves to hire freight guys. Nearly all of the pilots I work with have prior freight experience. I'd put money on a freight guy getting hired before a regional FO at my current shop any day (all else equal, of course). If you really want to get technical, you are correct in saying that a chieftain job probably won't measure up crj experience. The thing is, most chieftain jobs normally lead to Beech 99, 1900, and Metro jobs very quickly. That turbo prop experience is what is going to put you ahead of regional FOs, unless you want to go to a major, which you said you didn't.

You are correct that a dui is a major hurdle. However, your don't seem to be embracing the opportunities that are very available to you. In the thread where you announced your ATP completion, it looked like someone was ready to help you get a freight job and the location and pay for that job must be what this is all about. Networking at NBAA was a great idea, but did you really expect your resume to impress anyone there at this point? I bet if you had just a few years of freight experience added to that resume you would've had a lot more interest from those you approached at NBAA.

Just to clarify, the attitude thing I mentioned earlier had to do with you feeling a piston twin job was beneath you. With 50 hrs of multi time, it most certainly isn't. In fact, you quite possible aren't even insurable at the operations you were hoping to get on with at NBAA. Also, employers really don't like people who feel there is work which is beneath them. They need people who are willing to do the job. They need people who do what it takes.

I really don't mean for any of this to come across as an attack on you, it certainly isn't. I just hoped to point out some things that are very obvious to me and hopefully make you realize you can pick yourself up from this. It's just been a little frustrating because you're letting the airline rejection make you feel like it's all over. Idk, maybe you've been on APC too much lately? Seriously, if you want to make a career out of aviation, you just have to make it happen. The people here are giving you the advice you need, now the ball is in your court.

Like and +1...that is some constructive criticism if I've ever heard any before. Good job sir.

 

[MikeD]

Not sure about the attitude either. Im saying this is the response that I have gotten so far or lack there of and its not good. In response to the OP this is my story so dont know how that makes my attitude poor but in the past month since getting the ATP and nothing has come out of it.

Things don't happen instantly. Sometimes opportunities take some time.

Its not about wanting an FMS and I have asked though nobody has responded yet how say a cheiftan job could possibly compare to someone flyng a CRJ? For someone starting out its not about a freight job not being worth anything but that its that comparatively weaker and un-competitive and hence since the regionals are apparently hurting you should be able to get in there but not if you have a record. Again if someone can fill this in then please do.

I flew freight, both single as well as multiengine, and it was a great experience. Much rather have done that than sat in the right seat of an RJ.

The point again being that as far as I have seen so far its a dui is a career death sentence. thats all.

Unfortunately, this is pretty true. Why? Because it can be. With a good number of pilots to choose from, and no real "pilot shortage", many companies/airlines/etc can afford to have this as a non-starter.

 

[soakingpilot]

Things don't happen instantly. Sometimes opportunities take some time.
I flew freight, both single as well as multiengine, and it was a great experience. Much rather have done that than sat in the right seat of an RJ.
Unfortunately, this is pretty true. Why? Because it can be. With a good number of pilots to choose from, and no real "pilot shortage", many companies/airlines/etc can afford to have this as a non-starter.

so what did you get on with after the freight job? piston or turbine
and yeah im about 97% out the door from aviation at this point

 

[SteveC]

so what did you get on with after the freight job?...

To save @MikeD lots of typing, start by reading his perspective article: http://jetcareers.com/perspectives/55-perspectives-capt-mike-daftarian-usaf.html

That story ends just as he is about to switch to flying the F-117 Stealth. He's done a lot of different things since then as well. I'll let him fill in those details if he is so inclined.

 

[soakingpilot]

To save @MikeD lots of typing, start by reading his perspective article: http://jetcareers.com/perspectives/55-perspectives-capt-mike-daftarian-usaf.html

That story ends just as he is about to switch to flying the F-117 Stealth. He's done a lot of different things since then as well. I'll let him fill in those details if he is so inclined.

read it, it does not really apply as I'm not about to go join the air force or couldnt anyways but yeah nice flying story.
moreoever he says himself yeah anything can happen but agrees with my point that a dui is a career death sentence so whats your point then?

 

[MikeD]

read it, it does not really apply as I'm not about to go join the air force or couldnt anyways but yeah nice flying story.
moreoever he says himself yeah anything can happen but agrees with my point that a dui is a career death sentence so whats your point then?

I didn't necessarily say its a career death sentence, but moreso a severe challenge or setback now, and one of your own doing which you readily acknowledge. It's like you've slid down the mountain a fair ways on your climb up: you can choose to just hike back down the mountain, or you can continue climbing back up, recognizing that you're going to have to hike up ground you've already previously covered on your way to the top in terms of things like "going back to pistons" possibly, etc. Your choice, and each choice has plusses and minuses.

But yes, a DUI is going to be a tough hurdle for the reasons I mentioned in the other post. If there was a pilot shortage, then it likely wouldn't be or be as much. Insofar as a death sentence, you're not on death row awaiting execution, so to speak, but you're definately going to have to "do time" career-wise prior to being paroled.

 

[SteveC]

...so whats your point then?

I didn't have a point to make. Just helping answer your question about what Mike did after flying freight.

 

[soakingpilot]

I didn't necessarily say its a career death sentence, but moreso a severe challenge or setback now, and one of your own doing which you readily acknowledge. It's like you've slid down the mountain a fair ways on your climb up: you can choose to just hike back down the mountain, or you can continue climbing back up, recognizing that you're going to have to hike up ground you've already previously covered on your way to the top in terms of things like "going back to pistons" possibly, etc. Your choice, and each choice has plusses and minuses.

But yes, a DUI is going to be a tough hurdle for the reasons I mentioned in the other post. If there was a pilot shortage, then it likely wouldn't be or be as much. Insofar as a death sentence, you're not on death row awaiting execution, so to speak, but you're definately going to have to "do time" career-wise prior to being paroled.

i figured it being now 13 years ago would have covered that plus 2 years already of flying in a charter service. guess not. wheres my lethal injection? anyone? help a brother out

ok no really i quit

 

[MikeD]

i figured it being now 13 years ago would have covered that plus 2 years already of flying in a charter service. guess not. wheres my lethal injection? anyone? help a brother out

ok no really i quit

With that amount of time sure, it shouldn't be too big a deal, especially since you've been working already and fine. Keep chugging along, if you desire to.

 

[soakingpilot]

thats the whole point... thats what it is and nothing is happening so wtf i mean what does someone need to do around here??

 

[Stone Cold]

thats the whole point... thats what it is and nothing is happening so wtf i mean what does someone need to do around here??

Hey @chrisreedrules how's your DUI and 1500 TT treating you? What, you don't have a DUI, have jet time, and are having problems finding a decent gig? You mean to tell me you have to work at this and be patient?

Yes, that was heavy sarcasm, but seriously, if you want it bad enough, network, and keep chugging. If you're ready to quit, ring the bell and good luck in your future endeavors.

Best of luck no matter what you decide!

 

[chrisreedrules]

Anything worth doing is worth doing 100%. Don't lose the faith. Lord knows its easy to in this career. I know guys with DUIs on their record and still flying. They have typically had to work for less than desirable companies to get where they are but if you want it bad enough, you will do what it takes. Best of luck.

 

[soakingpilot]

to get where they are ? well where is that? still flying rubber dog stuff out of hong kong or actually where they want to be?

the point of all of this is why even give it a go if the end stop at this point is just at some backwater yokel town flying a 402 picking bugs off the window for life.

 

[chrisreedrules]

to get where they are ? well where is that? still flying rubber dog stuff out of hong kong or actually where they want to be?

the point of all of this is why even give it a go if the end stop at this point is just at some backwater yokel town flying a 402 picking bugs off the window for life.

Because you never know unless you try... Or consult your magic 8 ball (Which has been my strategy thus far with this career).

 

[MikeD]

the point of all of this is why even give it a go if the end stop at this point is just at some backwater yokel town flying a 402 picking bugs off the window for life.

If that's what you feel, then you probably are better off quitting.

 

[soakingpilot]

hah wouldnt you quit if thats the only thing you could ever achieve.

but considering that it seems the people are just commenting on here about giving it the ole try and not actually have first hand knowledge of this topic themselves it seems like it would be pretty bleak for the most part which is what im trying to get it.

simply put: is it worth even trying or just quit now? and answering yes is not an acceptable answer as that requires no thought into the progression of this thread whatsoever. ie. can you get somehwere thats OK decent QOL and some decent equipment?

again it doesnt seem like anyone really knows from first hand knowledge or a friend of theirs directly that they know who had the same issue so.. im assuming no..

i am kinad wondering though why anyone would follow this thread if they dont have first hand knowledge or know someone else directly to relate to it?? heh maybe just scoping out all the competition that you dont have do deal with i guess.

 

[MikeD]

hah wouldnt you quit if thats the only thing you could ever achieve.

but considering that it seems the people are just commenting on here about giving it the ole try and not actually have first hand knowledge of this topic themselves it seems like it would be pretty bleak for the most part which is what im trying to get it.

simply put: is it worth even trying or just quit now? and answering yes is not an acceptable answer as that requires no thought into the progression of this thread whatsoever. ie. can you get somehwere thats OK decent QOL and some decent equipment?

again it doesnt seem like anyone really knows from first hand knowledge or a friend of theirs directly that they know who had the same issue so.. im assuming no..

i am kinad wondering though why anyone would follow this thread if they dont have first hand knowledge or know someone else directly to relate to it?? heh maybe just scoping out all the competition that you dont have do deal with i guess.

I would imagine there aren't a ton of people here with a DUI, though I do know of one, and from what I know, he's doing fairly well of a rebound. And for others, it's probably also "someone they know who did X"

Insofar as "is it worth trying or quit now", you have multiple answers here. But ultimately it's up to you to crap or get off the pot, instead of dilly-dallying in purgatory like many of your posts here are doing. So make a damn decision, instead of trying to get people to make it for you.

Do you want to stay in flying or don't you? Figure that out, then make a decision. Because if you're not going to do that much for yourself, then I too don't know why anyone is wasting time following this thread either.

 

[chrisreedrules]

From what I've seen from the 2 people I know with DUIs that are pilots... You can choose to let the event define you or you can define the event by moving forward with your career and showing a pattern of safety and better decision making. Both guys I know are doing well and the event is about 5 years or so in each of their pasts. Simply by continuing to move forward with your career will show your dedication and willingness to succeed. The fact that you haven't come to that conclusion on your own tells me (and maybe some others here) that perhaps aviation isn't your thing. And that's cool. It isn't for everyone and no one on here cares if you drive an airplane, a tour bus, or if you make money sitting behind a computer all day. If you want to fly, then fly. If your over it and don't feel it's worth the effort, then move on. No one is going to judge you either way. I'm not sure what answers you were looking for but I'm am sure everyone here has given helpful advice in one form or the other. Just go fly. Go flight instruct. Go fly freight. Go fly survey. My last job had me working with guys with DUIs, 709 rides, and even drug use history. All of them now sober, and great guys to fly with (and good pilots). One is now a CP of a fairly large flight department and the other is making good money crop dusting. Like I said, you can choose to be defined by your past, or define it for yourself and move on.