Please Help: Another OWI (DUI) Thread

[HIfly808]

Hello all,

I am a new member here and I was really hoping to get some insight on the current state of events that are unfolding before me. I am a instrument rated private pilot with approximately 230 hours. In August of last year (2013) I was arrested under suspicion of operating while intoxicated. In the State of Wisconsin where the arrest took place a first offense OWI is treated as a civil matter, rather than a criminal matter (read:misdemeanor). While I was taken to the police station I was not "booked" in the traditional sense. I consented to the breathalyzer in which the reported value was 0.09. Thereafter I was released to a responsible party who took me home. At this time the case is still ongoing, trial is set for July, 2014.

Later that same month I was pulled over for speeding on vacation in Hawaii, very stupid considering what just happened weeks prior I am well aware. Regardless I was issued a criminal traffic citation. I was never arrested, just served the citation and was sent on my way. As I was on vacation I was unable to fight the charge from 3,000+ miles away. I was able to plea bargain the criminal traffic charge to a non-traffic petty misdemeanor. No jail time or license suspension as would have been in the original charge. Hawaii treats speeding more serious than most states treat DUI's. The final disposition was a charge of "Regulations in Historical Districts 1&2" which is actually a zoning violation in the Maui County Code. (It was the PD idea as he knew I was a pilot).

Now to current times. I haven't flown since January of 2012, as my medical lapsed at that time and I didn't renew as I was monitoring the infamous 1500 hour rule and deciding if I still wanted to fly as a career. As I have graduated the University of Wisconsin and garnered full time employment I decided that I would like to continue on to get my commercial rating as I have a better income. I applied for my 3rd class medical in Honolulu where I now live and I reported the OWI and the misdemeanor on the 8500 form. The AME deferred the medical to OKC and I have waited to hear from them. I have heard back from the medical division of the FAA and they asked for additional information including; Police Report from the OWI investigation and official BAC printout, Court Records for both incidents, Records Associated with Evaluations and Assessments for Substance Abuse (which I haven't done as I have not been convicted), a personal statement regarding both incidents and drivers abstracts in order for further consideration. Can anyone offer insight as to what might happen next, what my chances are of being approved for a medical?

Now to the big nail biter. After everything that happened legally with me I was really down in the dumps mentally, had to deal with the legal ramifications on my plate and I had my final semester in college to worry about. I hadn't given flying penalties much thought as I hadn't been flying for well over a year prior. At the time of the OWI I was unaware of the 60 day reporting requirement to the FAA. When I went for my medical in late April I learned of the requirement and sent the notification shortly there after. Since the time of my OWI incident and sending the notification letter I haven't received a letter of investigation or any letter from the FAA that I'm aware of. It says on their FAQ page that an notification letter sent after 60 days but before the FAA finds it on their own is generally a mitigating factor when deciding whether to impose sanctions. I've read though that failure to report in a timely manner is grounds for certification action against the offending airman.

I am well aware that my alleged actions and the choices I've made were not wise in the slightest, especially having a pilot's certificate. There isn't a day that goes by that I don't wish that I could go back and do things differently. It has been a real eye opener for me, it's a shame it took such drastic measures for me "to see the light" so to speak and mature. At this point I am just trying to get back on track with my goals and regain a semblance of the life I had before all this happened. I would like to hear informed opinions on my situation. I plan on calling the FAA as soon as possible to talk to an investigator and try and get ahead of this if possible. I just don't want to move forward and cause more harm then good.

Thank you for your time.

 

[PilotDefenseAttorney]

You have certainly done some damage; but you also have a few things working in your favor. The best I can offer at this point is: (1) contact an aviation attorney before you have any further communications with the FAA and (2) do not share the specific facts of your case on this or any other open forum. By reviewing the specific facts of your case an attorney can offer you specific advise. If you are a member of AOPA (and hopefully their legal services plan) - call them. There is no "magic bullet" that will provide a solution to your situation but, as you said, you clearly need to "get ahead of" the situation. Good luck.

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

(1) contact an aviation attorney before you have any further communications with the FAA

This is especially true with requests for additional information on an DUI. We humans, especially under stress, are not the best at thinking things out. I can envision, for example, a number of things you might say that you think will help the situation but will actually harm it. Most of us (except of course attorneys) aren't that well-versed ion legal jargon (for example, you described one of the events as a "civil matter, rather than a criminal matter (read:misdemeanor)." Wisconsin, like other states such as Massachusetts, may have a separate "non-criminal" category for certain minor traffic offenses, but something that is a "misdemeanor" is most definitely a "criminal manner".

The use of an attorney in a situation like this will probably not mean his or her direct involvement with the FAA but will mean assistance to you in determining which records comply with the FAA's request and in preparing your personal statement in a way that accurately gives the information the FAA is asking for in a way that does more good than harm.

 

[CaptBill]

It's a good thing that you have "seen the Light." Whether it's aviation, engineering or just working at the hardware store, you will need to keep your past bad behavior in the past and not repeat it. It speaks good of you that you are accepting responsibility and trying to move forward in a good way. You may not realize how valuable your contribution is on this site, but others reading this can learn from your mistakes and see how complicated it can get trying to fix things and manage the damage. Since we aren't smart enough to know everything, we must rely on others, and their experiences (good and bad) to learn from.

I wish you well in the future.

 

[rockman2343@aol.com]

I can't really tell you much as far as the 60 day reporting or the medical thing. As far as getting employed, it really just depends on the economy and how bad they need pilots. Right now things seem to be going in your favor as far as needing pilots, but who knows if that will still be the case. I can tell you the best thing you can do is have 5 clean years from the end of your sentence and then get that Canada situation taken care of ASAP. that is going to be a show stopper more than the DUI itself when it comes to the airlines and most certainly corporate. Just remember from here on when you apply for jobs there will be those that flat out won't give you one just because of that. don't get discouraged, because there are also those that will give you a shot.

 

[MikeOH58]

Don't let the bastards grind you down. The high and mighty that are going to forever blacklist you are likely the same people that would thumb their nose at a Part 142 check ride failure 20 years ago. You still have plenty of opportunity, and contrary to popular belief, there are many great jobs that you are still eligible for.

That being said, hope this is a wake up call and you recognize what lead you hear and improve your life personally and professionally as a result. Sometimes a mistake can be the greatest source of knowledge. Don't give that lip service and you'll be a better pilot and better person in the long run. Goodluck!

 

[TexasT]

Don't let the bastards grind you down. The high and mighty that are going to forever blacklist you are likely the same people that would thumb their nose at a Part 142 check ride failure 20 years ago. You still have plenty of opportunity, and contrary to popular belief, there are many great jobs that you are still eligible for.

That being said, hope this is a wake up call and you recognize what lead you hear and improve your life personally and professionally as a result. Sometimes a mistake can be the greatest source of knowledge. Don't give that lip service and you'll be a better pilot and better person in the long run. Goodluck!

This was very well-said.

I'd also like to point out that those 'high and mighty' are oftentimes folks who have committed the same mistake you have, aside from whether or not they've been caught in the action.

Chin up, sir; learn from it, grow from it, and DO NOT REPEAT it. I have something similar in my own past and have occasionally been able to turn it around, when asked, and show how much I learned from it. It surely doesn't take away from how much it sucks having to answer for it after the 10 years it's been, but it's worth it to me to do what I do. Another of the same event and I'd be done.

Best of luck and fly safe!

 

[MikeOH58]

How silly of me using the wrong "hear". I meant…hair =) ummm

 

[manniax]

Wisconsin, like other states such as Massachusetts, may have a separate "non-criminal" category for certain minor traffic offenses, but something that is a "misdemeanor" is most definitely a "criminal manner".

In Wisconsin (probably unique among all states although I am not sure) an OWI with a BAC of under .10 is not a misdemeanor - it's a traffic ticket. No possibility of going to jail.

 

[soakingpilot]

Don't let the bastards grind you down. The high and mighty that are going to forever blacklist you are likely the same people that would thumb their nose at a Part 142 check ride failure 20 years ago. You still have plenty of opportunity, and contrary to popular belief, there are many great jobs that you are still eligible for.

That being said, hope this is a wake up call and you recognize what lead you hear and improve your life personally and professionally as a result. Sometimes a mistake can be the greatest source of knowledge. Don't give that lip service and you'll be a better pilot and better person in the long run. Goodluck!

Heh oh really? I had something similar 12 years ago and I'm not having so much luck with an ATP.. So really try me and tell me where these great jobs are? Freight runs in Pierre SD in a chieftan? Uhhh

 

[MikeOH58]

Heh oh really? I had something similar 12 years ago and I'm not having so much luck with an ATP.. So really try me and tell me where these great jobs are? Freight runs in Pierre SD in a chieftan? Uhhh

You're a brand new ATP, what do you expect? Freight runs in Pierre, SD sound just about right given your experience if you want to stay in the non-airlines side of the industry, and don't know the right person. When you passed your ATP you wrote you had something like 1,600 hours total time and 50 hours multi.

Experience wise, you have just left the cradle and began to crawl. Unless you are specifically being sent home from interviews after disclosing your DUI, I would imagine your peers with similar experience are having just as difficult of a time finding a job.

The market is getting better, but I doubt it's anywhere near the point that fresh ATP's are being offered right seat jet jobs at desirable departments.

Goodluck!

 

[soakingpilot]

Right im talking about anything.. various regionals have already denied it and a single engine tpop operator. pfff
In one sense im glad my 75K spent went into supporting aviation but i dont see anything coming out of it.

The reality is it will be bottom of the barrel from here on out, so my advice is
If your not clean as a whistle get out and stay out and save your money. there is enough selection to be picky and you wont be it.

 

[1wrangler]

Right im talking about anything.. PSA didnt want it ( regional) denied this month. Planesense for ffs wasnt interested ( single engine Tpop ) denied today In one sense im glad my 75K spent went into supporting aviation but i dont see anything coming out of it.
Further I just got back from NBAA today and realized it aint happening.
The reality is it will be bottom of the barrel from here on out, so my advice is
If your not clean as a whistle get out and stay out and save your money. there is enough selection to be picky.

Suggestion: go fly freight for a few years. Build your resume while you put time between yourself and your past. It's already been said, but don't be surprised employers aren't blowing up your phone at your experience level. I've never been to NBAA, but I'm guessing the crowd at that event is generally made up of some very experienced folks. To summerize; just give it time and keep improving your resume. I know the ATP is a great accomplishment, but it's really just the tip of the iceberg in the big scheme of things.

 

[soakingpilot]

its been 12 years ffs, plus my previous exp flying pax around in africa,medevacs, international flying and then to fly freight in a piston? I even flew dan quayle and his wife though i wouldnt ever consier that an accomplishment.
What then only apply to the regionals again if they were to hire me ( dont know what would change frankly ) to reset myself back to poverty wages from the previous years of freight poverty wages. ???
as you can see the problem here is that its just chasing a dream and wasting time putting up with a •e qol while kids much younger than i or someone else moves ahead in the game

so if someone wants to really explain why anyone with any blemish regardless if its over a decade should pursue anything then go ahead. maybe they have a story of their own though i doubt it if anything im just providing my information to others here so they can save their time and their money and most of their drive to do anything they wanted to do. simple as that

the atp is a great accomplishment i guess? but only if it has value..

 

[1wrangler]

its been 12 years ffs, plus my previous exp flying pax around in africa,medevacs, international flying and then to fly freight in a piston? I even flew dan quayle and his wife though i wouldnt ever consier that an accomplishment.
What then only apply to the regionals again if they were to hire me ( dont know what would change frankly ) to reset myself back to poverty wages from the previous years of freight poverty wages. ???
as you can see the problem here is that its just chasing a dream and wasting time putting up with a e qol while kids much younger than i or someone else moves ahead in the game

so if someone wants to really explain why anyone with any blemish regardless if its over a decade should pursue anything then go ahead. maybe they have a story of their own though i doubt it if anything im just providing my information to others here so they can save their time and their money and most of their drive to do anything they wanted to do. simple as that

the atp is a great accomplishment i guess? but only if it has value..

There are great career avenues outside of the airlines. There are freight operators out there that do not pay poverty wages (do your research). In fact, some pay close to double first year regional pay within a year of starting with them (no I'm not talking about Ameriflight or the now nonexistent Airnet) At your experience level (not much less than mine), you are not above flying freight in a piston airplane. To avoid completely derailing this thread, I'll quit coaching now, haha.

 

[wheelsup]

Buddy of mine was hired this year at a legacy with a previous DUI. It was around 12 years as well. Previous to that he was at a good regional for 8 years.

 

[MikeOH58]

its been 12 years ffs, plus my previous exp flying pax around in africa,medevacs, international flying and then to fly freight in a piston? I even flew dan quayle and his wife though i wouldnt ever consier that an accomplishment.
What then only apply to the regionals again if they were to hire me ( dont know what would change frankly ) to reset myself back to poverty wages from the previous years of freight poverty wages. ???
as you can see the problem here is that its just chasing a dream and wasting time putting up with a e qol while kids much younger than i or someone else moves ahead in the game

so if someone wants to really explain why anyone with any blemish regardless if its over a decade should pursue anything then go ahead. maybe they have a story of their own though i doubt it if anything im just providing my information to others here so they can save their time and their money and most of their drive to do anything they wanted to do. simple as that

the atp is a great accomplishment i guess? but only if it has value..

With all due respect, it's really starting to sound like it's your attitude. You're too good to fly freight because you have 1,500 hours and an ATP? WTF does flying pax around Africa have to do with US Domestic Ops? Dan Quayle??? If that is your ONLY VIP to brag about, then again it's telling of your minimal experience.

Experience, experience, experience dude. You need more of it, and 135 freight is likely the way to go. There is no shame in that dude. If you do a couple years of 135 freight, your likely going to be a lot more confident, and ahead of the game then most of your peers. My other recommendation would be to take a full time right seat job at FSI or CAE. Kick ass, get a type or two, and impress the hell out of your return clients to that point that when they eventually hire, you are their first choice. If I were low time and starting all over, FSI/CAE is likely what I would do.

Goodluck man and don't take any of this personal because it's not.

 

[soakingpilot]

Right so I think my point is proven. The suggestion of not flying in an actual airplane just a sim and piston freight wouldn't compete with a peer who flys right over your head in an FMS'ed regional jet or any other type of op that would otherwise be available so yeah i would say there is allot of shame in knowing that your there and likely to stay there and always be ever growing behind the curve. ** again for the record i dont even want a major airline in the end but the regionals for me would just be a way to get some jet time etc thats all.

heh and its definitely not the attitude that would be a first ever im usually the guy that helps old ladies cross the street if you ever see that.. further an application on airlineapps certainly does not convey any type of personality trait regardless though the a rejection notice does certainly say go somewhere else with your sorry self


hmm maybe this is sounds like venting so ok i appreciate the advice but i think this just goes to my original point that its basically the career ender like i said before,
cheers

oh and i do do plenty of research and have yet to see a freight op thats going to pay anything

 

[1wrangler]

Right so I think my point is proven. The suggestion of not flying in an actual airplane just a sim and piston freight wouldn't compete with a peer who flys right over your head in an FMS'ed regional jet or any other type of op that would otherwise be available so yeah i would say there is allot of shame in knowing that your there and likely to stay there and always be ever growing behind the curve. ** again for the record i dont even want a major airline in the end but the regionals for me would just be a way to get some jet time etc thats all.

heh and its definitely not the attitude that would be a first ever im usually the guy that helps old ladies cross the street if you ever see that.. further an application on airlineapps certainly does not convey any type of personality trait regardless though the a rejection notice does certainly say go somewhere else with your sorry self


hmm maybe this is sounds like venting so ok i appreciate the advice but i think this just goes to my original point that its basically the career ender like i said before,
cheers

oh and i do do plenty of research and have yet to see a freight op thats going to pay anything

If you don't want to end up at a major you really have nothing to complain about here. Piston freight jobs lead to turbine freight jobs (in short amounts of time these days) which lead to passenger jet/ turboprop jobs (FMS equipment you mentioned you wanted) which can lead to awesome part 91 jobs. The FSI/CAE jobs have been proven time and time again to provide great job opportunities, not sure why you're acting like that's a death sentence. The freight operator I used to fly for pays respectably, but I honestly don't think your attitude would fit in there so I can't help, I wish I could. They say you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink..

 

[soakingpilot]

Not sure about the attitude either. Im saying this is the response that I have gotten so far or lack there of and its not good. In response to the OP this is my story so dont know how that makes my attitude poor but in the past month since getting the ATP and nothing has come out of it.

Its not about wanting an FMS and I have asked though nobody has responded yet how say a cheiftan job could possibly compare to someone flyng a CRJ? For someone starting out its not about a freight job not being worth anything but that its that comparatively weaker and un-competitive and hence since the regionals are apparently hurting you should be able to get in there but not if you have a record. Again if someone can fill this in then please do.
The point again being that as far as I have seen so far its a dui is a career death sentence. thats all.