Plane from Scottsdale, AZ crashes enroute Telluride

Couple thoughts:

No IFR rating so they can't climb through a layer.

No O2. So they have to stay below 12.5

Just bad decision making.

Seems as if the engine was running and they had gas based on the preliminary. So much for the engine out at night theory.
Climbing through a layer VFR is such a better option than descending into rocks. You might call it an emergency to be legal, but it'll keep you alive.
No O2 above 12.5, again, is irrelevant once you fine yourself in a bad situation. You're not going to pass out, even at 15k or so, we all know this. Staying alive trumps regs. Again you might call it an emergency to stay legal(I say might because you're probably not talking to anyone, negating the purpose of actually declaring over radio), but that's paperwork for after you're alive when you land. In a bad situation like this sounds like he got himself into, you need to have in your bag of tricks to break any and every rule that will keep you alive.
 
Climbing through a layer VFR is such a better option than descending into rocks. You might call it an emergency to be legal, but it'll keep you alive.
No O2 above 12.5, again, is irrelevant once you fine yourself in a bad situation. You're not going to pass out, even at 15k or so, we all know this. Staying alive trumps regs. Again you might call it an emergency to stay legal(I say might because you're probably not talking to anyone, negating the purpose of actually declaring over radio), but that's paperwork for after you're alive when you land. In a bad situation like this sounds like he got himself into, you need to have in your bag of tricks to break any and every rule that will keep you alive.

Yep totally agree. Just kind of thinking how this guy got himself into a bad situation.
 
Seems like this accident is simply attributed to a very low time, inexperienced private pilot getting in over his head. Why? Who knows....the list is long. Probably pressure not to disappoint his wife and kids as I'm sure they were all very excited about their vacation. Maybe just an overinflated ego or a JFK Jr scenario. Being an inexperienced pilot is a funny thing. Folks are basically handed a license to "learn" with a very small base line of knowledge and very little experience to make good judgement calls. "Good judgement comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgement" comes to mind.

We have new pilots being taught by inexperienced CFI's. I know, there was a time I was one of those CFI's. By the time I got my CFII and teaching instrument students I had virtually no real world weather flying. It's just the way it was and probably still is today. I shutter thinking back to those days and how little I actually knew. In retrospect and in a perfect world, CFI's should be the most experienced pilots with thousands of real world hours who are able to share those experiences to students and not just be able to regurgitate words from a book.

We sometimes, actually most of the time, don't realize how inexperienced we are until we're knee deep in a situation that calls for more experience. If we're lucky we fumble a little bit, luck out and get through it...ergo, we attain more experience and hopefully better judgement for the next time. If not, we become another statistic. High terrain, bad weather, single engine piston aircraft, little experience and you're just asking for trouble IMHO. Yea, I know people do it all the time but safety margins are razor thin. Add in nighttime and a mechanical issues and you might find yourself running out of options and luck at the same time. I prefer better odds, especially with my loved ones onboard.

I have no idea about the chain of events leading up to this accident only the outcome. I can speculate as to the chain based on this being a reoccurring theme. Hopefully, others can learn from it and step back, re-evaluate and possibly break that link on the chain leading to a accident.
I'd be a very different CFI now after a couple years of 135 flying than I was back when I was actually instructing...
 
I'd be a very different CFI now after a couple years of 135 flying than I was back when I was actually instructing...
This is exactly why I think a pilot should have at least 500TT before becoming an instructor.......
 
I'd be a very different CFI now after a couple years of 135 flying than I was back when I was actually instructing...

I think all of us who have moved up in the world of aviation would do a better job of paying it forward now vs when our CFI's were still wet. Would you want your new doctors to be taught by someone fresh outta med school armed with only "book" knowledge and "theory" or a 20-30 yr surgeon who can relay real world experience to the newly minted MD?

Granted, a newly minted young CFI is probably more up to speed on the basics and "book" knowledge including FAR's, the alphabet airspace and VFR rules (I haven't flown anything under a VFR flt plan in years). But, what is missing with most CFI-student relationships is a wider and deeper experience level to pass along. You know, the book says this but why? Can you relate a story to help cement the experience? What did you do in this or that situation? What did you do right or wrong? What did you learn from the experience?

I would've loved to have a highly experienced mentor or CFI who could not only teach initial students throughout their quest for ratings, but also brought to the table a wealth of experience to share that fills in the gaps of understanding that's hard to find in books.

Anyway, coming to the end of my career and looking back, I just think we so some things backwards from what even common sense dictates is the wrong way to do it. Early on I can think of at least 5-6 situations where I shouldn't even be here anymore. I wasn't even aware of how deep I was in a situation and really wasn't prepared for until it was almost too late. My training hadn't really prepared me. My inexperienced CFII never took me up on a cloudy day because they probably weren't comfortable enough in the clouds. My first exposure to solid IFR and actual approach conditions was after I got my instrument rating. Discovered I wasn't totally prepared for everything that was happening. Couldn't just take the hood off and get a quick glance. Wasn't prepared the first time I ran into ice or heavy rain etc.. Would've been nice to have a crusty old mentor or experienced CFI take me up on real IFR days to see what it was REALLY like. That's all I'm saying.

Fly safe!
 
not noticed by the board, this PIC missed his last back door when he blew right past Payson Airport, 11 nm south of accident site.
 
Clearly they had been. But a spin endorsement doesn't mean you know what your doing.

Correct. When I was a CFI at Flight Safety, students were only required, and restricted to a one turn spin. That's not a spin, just a real fast 360* turn. I always let it go for a "few" more turns.
 
The report is out on this one. CFIT after flying into IMC. The pilot co-owned the plane with another person. That person who was instrument related reviewed the weather and flight plan before the accident and told the guy not to go, but he did anyway. IIRC, the guy was divorced from the mother of his children who died in the crash. Per the terms of their divorce agreement, the kids weren't supposed to be on the plane.

Just a sad story.
 
The report is out on this one. CFIT after flying into IMC. The pilot co-owned the plane with another person. That person who was instrument related reviewed the weather and flight plan before the accident and told the guy not to go, but he did anyway. IIRC, the guy was divorced from the mother of his children who died in the crash. Per the terms of their divorce agreement, the kids weren't supposed to be on the plane.

Just a sad story.
ugh.
 
The report is out on this one. CFIT after flying into IMC. The pilot co-owned the plane with another person. That person who was instrument related reviewed the weather and flight plan before the accident and told the guy not to go, but he did anyway. IIRC, the guy was divorced from the mother of his children who died in the crash. Per the terms of their divorce agreement, the kids weren't supposed to be on the plane.

Just a sad story.

This crap makes me furious. If you are going to be a freaking • and kill yourself, that's one thing. Please don't drag anyone else into it with you. This is sadly, fairly common...
 
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