milleR
Well-Known Member
Seems like a testament to the build quality if you ask me.
Thank you, it's a great plane though always a bit of a challenge to balance time on the ramp with stuff that needs to happen before you can move/stop.
Piper Navajo for sale $ 1.500.000 ??!!
- Thread starter melax
- Start date
Thank you, it's a great plane though always a bit of a challenge to balance time on the ramp with stuff that needs to happen before you can move/stop.
z987k
Well-Known Member
You just described a BC-12D. 2 seats, great baggage, 65-90HP, no electrical, rag and tube, tailwheel, no flaps, no instruments. Only you can buy one for 12-15k instead of 40-100k.
Quit dreaming and do it.
knot4u
Repeat Offender
Sweet, now all I need is the backyard. Small bites will get me there, trying to do it all at once will surely choke me.
z987k
Well-Known Member
They do have grass airports.
knot4u
Repeat Offender
Do you think I'm dumb? The paradise of a hangar connected to a home on a grass strip is a retirement dream. I'm fully aware of all of the options available. I refuse to give up too much too early. Hopefully I'll be viable enough to enjoy it when I get there, owning an airplane right now doesn't make sense. If you feel that it does I encourage you to buy one without delay, you may never see the marketplace as it is again.
bimmerphile
Sidestick Wiggler
One of my favorite airplanes.
When I first started working line service, we had one come in to drop off a prisoner. They left empty, sucked up the gear and stayed in ground effect, blew by the ramp in a glorious cloud of smoke and noise and pitched up to an attitude that may have gotten them to low earth orbit with just a bit more thrust.
I stood outside and laughed for the entire sequence. It was awesome.
BajtheJino
I'm looking at you.
The Panther is a real beaut of a bird. Rumor has it that conversion has an aparatus in the seat that comes out in cruise that "services" you like no living human can do. I mean for $1.5 mil it better, right?
If I was the kind of guy that could spend money like a drunken sailor I'd buy one to add to my small fleet. I wouldn't buy it to fly from coast to coast but to load my buddies up, impress people with the elegance for a quick one hour hop-why not? If I had a ton of money to buy stuff I'd also buy a Casa and pimp it out so I could have a back ramp so I could fly around with it down too. But I'm just a po' pilot hoping to buy a 1940's TaylorCraft cause thats my budget.
If I was the kind of guy that could spend money like a drunken sailor I'd buy one to add to my small fleet. I wouldn't buy it to fly from coast to coast but to load my buddies up, impress people with the elegance for a quick one hour hop-why not? If I had a ton of money to buy stuff I'd also buy a Casa and pimp it out so I could have a back ramp so I could fly around with it down too. But I'm just a po' pilot hoping to buy a 1940's TaylorCraft cause thats my budget.
z987k
Well-Known Member
I'm just encouraging aircraft ownership. I do have one, and it's the best decision I ever made. I also want a hangar, and that will come, but not yet.
I brought up the t-cart because I have a friend with one that I have flown, and I think it is the best deal going in aviation for a 2 seater.
.....and Bill Lear smiled down from heaven with pride.
milleR
Well-Known Member
When I interviewed at Airnet they picked me up in a LR35. It was late so my memory probably sucks, but I remember sitting in the jumpseat across from the clamshell and hanging from one arm, wrapped around the pole behind the copilots seat as we climbed away from BWI. It was strenuous and glorious.
That thing has 400 knots of sexy written all over it!
Richman
JC’s Resident Curmudgeon
For those that don't know, Mike Jones refurbs Navajos to "like new". The whole airplane is torn apart and essentially rebuilt. Anything that moves on the airplane is replaced or O/He'd to new specs. They're as close to new as you can get.
New Chiefs we're going for about $450k in the early 80s, and that's about 1.2-1.3 mil in today's wussified dollars, so the price isn't too far out of line for a "new" 'jo.
Sure, someone could buy one on their own and do the same, but as anyone who's ever done that will tell you, it's a giant PITA to manage and a indeterminate down time.
This is a bit spendy, but only marginally so. Anyone attempting to get into a bottom feeder turbine will get punched in the gut with costs far beyond the capital outlay for this bird.
The airframe refurb business is picking up. I saw some 172s at OSH this year that had been rebuilt, and they were better than new.
Richman
New Chiefs we're going for about $450k in the early 80s, and that's about 1.2-1.3 mil in today's wussified dollars, so the price isn't too far out of line for a "new" 'jo.
Sure, someone could buy one on their own and do the same, but as anyone who's ever done that will tell you, it's a giant PITA to manage and a indeterminate down time.
This is a bit spendy, but only marginally so. Anyone attempting to get into a bottom feeder turbine will get punched in the gut with costs far beyond the capital outlay for this bird.
The airframe refurb business is picking up. I saw some 172s at OSH this year that had been rebuilt, and they were better than new.
Richman
milleR
Well-Known Member
I respectfully disagree, if proper due diligence is performed.
higney85
Property of Scheduling
I flew for Mike between 03-06. During that time, many ferry permits were honored from the fisdo, leading to many flights where things were decided to either not work, or stopped working. We would take 1 plane to XYZ airport to look at a Navajo with low time, and out of time (motors) on the same visit. If they struck a deal, at a low price, the mission would become a very thorough preflight and runup, documenting what worked and didn't, and a ferry permit. Then it was a 2 ship flight to MBT (mufreesboro, tn) where nothing seemed to go right. Real experience building flights. Mechanics would then do a full annual and really take a look at everything. Then the fun began. Empty legs (interior included) to "tune town" outside of BNA for the panther conversion (he now owns that STC process), followed by paint in a few locales, and interior. He was big on reusing avionics from the CA side and putting it on the right side. Left side was latest and greatest. Interior was latest and greatest, paint was immaculate. The finished product is truly "like new". His sales pitch is "turn key" and it truly is. A finished product bird was interesting in the test flight (always some bugs), but his mechanics took care of those sqwauks with ease. The END Product was amazing and a joy to fly. The demo flights were normally folks who wanted cabin space they could fly themselves and bring the family, and pets, with a lav available (if needed).
When I flew with them it was a mix of "wanted turbine without fuel burn and school costs" or "looking at a baron but this goes just as fast with more space". Most clients seemed to be developers, residents of dual climates, or businessmen in a regional locale facing all climates. The final product was a joy to fly with space far bigger compared to a baron, seneca, or diamond. If it fit, is shipped, and losing a motor at V1 (or whatever previous to turbine-it's been 10 years- term), it would carry you back to the airport instead of the crash site. Like I said earlier, it was a house flip in airplane terms, and he views it as fixing anything and everything worn/broken, all of the latest AD's, all of the mods, and greatest performamce with looks, interiors, and avionics available.
And Mike himself, it took showing the latest "Mike Jones" video before he understood the joke that the few of us flying for him made. He's a devout southern baptist, and his facial expressions would have gardnered a million likes. He's a great guy who can't lie to save himself. Straight shooter in a business model of turning Navajos to the degree that nobody will find a fault in. At the time, he was buying them sub 200k, spending 300k, and selling them at $1M. Not sure where costs are now, but he survived 09', and always said he couldn't live with himself if he missed something he could have done to make a better product. Regardless of airframe time, he did every inspection and upgrade possible to say it's "like new" beyond a new shell and frame.
All that being said, I wish him the best, but if I ever buy an airplane... it will be twin and turbine, likely with an APU. Call me spoiled, or knowing what I'd actually want to fly. Pretty much everything beats a nose plug for oxygen and 200kts true in an "Econ" burn in the lower flight levels. Fun time at my point in the career stage though.
When I flew with them it was a mix of "wanted turbine without fuel burn and school costs" or "looking at a baron but this goes just as fast with more space". Most clients seemed to be developers, residents of dual climates, or businessmen in a regional locale facing all climates. The final product was a joy to fly with space far bigger compared to a baron, seneca, or diamond. If it fit, is shipped, and losing a motor at V1 (or whatever previous to turbine-it's been 10 years- term), it would carry you back to the airport instead of the crash site. Like I said earlier, it was a house flip in airplane terms, and he views it as fixing anything and everything worn/broken, all of the latest AD's, all of the mods, and greatest performamce with looks, interiors, and avionics available.
And Mike himself, it took showing the latest "Mike Jones" video before he understood the joke that the few of us flying for him made. He's a devout southern baptist, and his facial expressions would have gardnered a million likes. He's a great guy who can't lie to save himself. Straight shooter in a business model of turning Navajos to the degree that nobody will find a fault in. At the time, he was buying them sub 200k, spending 300k, and selling them at $1M. Not sure where costs are now, but he survived 09', and always said he couldn't live with himself if he missed something he could have done to make a better product. Regardless of airframe time, he did every inspection and upgrade possible to say it's "like new" beyond a new shell and frame.
All that being said, I wish him the best, but if I ever buy an airplane... it will be twin and turbine, likely with an APU. Call me spoiled, or knowing what I'd actually want to fly. Pretty much everything beats a nose plug for oxygen and 200kts true in an "Econ" burn in the lower flight levels. Fun time at my point in the career stage though.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
The good old days when checks still flew, men were men, and so were women, and these men were known as "freight dogs".
milleR
Well-Known Member
OOTSK
alaskadrifter
Landing gear operator
Nope, I don't believe it's possible.
Do yourself a favor and get one with an 85 or 100hp. They can be had for under 30k.
Richman
JC’s Resident Curmudgeon
I respectfully disagree with your respectful disagreement. You can't do that kind of due diligence on a bottom feeder turbine bird. If it had any kind of times left, it wouldn't be a bottom feeder.
Burn up a windshield, pop an ACM, blow a landing gear strut, figure out someone missed an inspection somewhere, and you're out some serious, serious money. Fixable, yes, but it takes some major league capital reserves and the cost for parts alone are enough to put your lights out. NOTHING is cheap to fix.
Some guys have the time, effort, connections, and yes plain ole' luck, to do the discount turbine thing successfully. It's a roll of the dice with a lot of cash at stake. If you've got the cash, no worries. There's a MU-2 sitting at my field that the owner fell into that exact trap.
If you've got the money to play, fine, but if you don't, be really careful.
Richman
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
By the way I had that same experience but out of DAL. Got put in the pool but then the massive furlough hit 6 months later.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
I don't know a lot, but I've picked up a thing or two over the last couple years re: aircraft acquisitions, though from the point of view of working machines, not personal transport. I've been part of both the "buy a premium turnkey machine" and "buy a known fixer upper" and my limited perspective is that it's 6 of one half dozen of the other, pay more up front or pay more down the road, with the advantage up front being that the airplane is ready to go instead of having a long layup before you can use it.
