Pinnacle to resume classes!!!

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Aren't a you a big advocate of raising the bar pcl128, when there are thousands on the street with more experience than 15 hours of multi? Not having submissive 200 hour pilots as union membersa? Oh wait you were a PFTer at GIA right? He'll be more than fine, there are guys with very little time learning how to fly a 747 in China right now let alone a little barby jet. The point is, is it safe?

Is it as safe as having a 5,000 hour furloughed major airline pilot in the seat? Of course not. Is it safer than having a 1,000 CFI in the seat that hasn't been through an RJ program? Well, that's debatable in my opinion. The sad fact is, most regionals aren't too fond of hiring high-time furloughed pilots. They know that the furloughed guy is going to jump up and leave as soon as he gets a better offer, and pretty much anything is better than $20/hr. So, my question to you is, should this pilot refuse to take the job just because he thinks that the airline should hire the furloughed major pilot, even though he knows that they won't hire that major pilot? Makes no sense to me. If I had my way, yes, all of the high-time airline guys would get the jobs first. But that's simply not going to happen. So, the low time guy might as well make himself competitive and do what he can to get the job.

 

[DE727UPS]

He's got 12 hours of multi time and an RJ course. Nothing personal, but I find that sub-par to be an airline pilot in a jet that says Northwest on the side of it. Especially in these times. I agree, though, a guy like that is managements wet dream if they can get them to the line. No complaints, just happy to be here. As opposed to an actually well qualified 737 driver who needs a job that will be nothing but trouble, pro-union, and leave ASAP.

But, no, I don't think he should turn down the job. Just glad I'm not an IOE guy over there....

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

You'd be surprised how pro-union some of these newbies can be. Having the lowest time pilots in the industry didn't do anything to harm our militancy at Pinnacle. Hell, look at the record 99.9% strike vote. The low-time newbies aren't the drones that people think they are.

 

[ctab5060X]

He's got 12 hours of multi time and an RJ course. Nothing personal, but I find that sub-par to be an airline pilot in a jet that says Northwest on the side of it. Especially in these times. I agree, though, a guy like that is managements wet dream if they can get them to the line. No complaints, just happy to be here. As opposed to an actually well qualified 737 driver who needs a job that will be nothing but trouble, pro-union, and leave ASAP.

But, no, I don't think he should turn down the job. Just glad I'm not an IOE guy over there....

You should have sat through my new hire class. The low time RJ Program pilots were blowing the well qualified pilots out of the water at times. Remember, most of these guys just finished getting their licenses, so their brain was still in a learning mode, whereas some others hadn't seriously cracked a manual in years. Also the younger generation picked up the glass cockpit a whole lot faster than some of the others. Made me sit back and seriously reevaluate low time pilots flying for the regionals...you can't judge them by just how many hours they have.

You'd be surprised how pro-union some of these newbies can be. Having the lowest time pilots in the industry didn't do anything to harm our militancy at Pinnacle. Hell, look at the record 99.9% strike vote. The low-time newbies aren't the drones that people think they are.

So true.

 

[Cptnchia]

You should have sat through my new hire class. The low time RJ Program pilots were blowing the well qualified pilots out of the water at times. Remember, most of these guys just finished getting their licenses, so their brain was still in a learning mode, whereas some others hadn't seriously cracked a manual in years. Also the younger generation picked up the glass cockpit a whole lot faster than some of the others. Made me sit back and seriously reevaluate low time pilots flying for the regionals...you can't judge them by just how many hours they have.

Yes you can. While they may be doing better than the other guys with the book learning, the true measure is in being able to handle the actual airplane in heavy IMC, with the airport at mins and dealing with a multiple emergency. Only real world experience prepares you for that. Otherwise, don't you think that all the airlines would be hiring these guys, not just the regionals?
Just think of the tag line, "Come fly XXX airlines, our pilots may be young and inexperienced, but they're book smart!"

 

[kellwolf]

You'd be surprised how pro-union some of these newbies can be. Having the lowest time pilots in the industry didn't do anything to harm our militancy at Pinnacle. Hell, look at the record 99.9% strike vote. The low-time newbies aren't the drones that people think they are.

Except by the time they can vote, you can't really call them newbies since they've been here for a year.....


I think Pinnacle management would prefer these guys in today's market b/c they really can't go anywhere else. A year ago, someone with 240TT would have come to PCL, got his 6 month "bonus check" and been off to a better regional. Well, now management knows they've got no where to go.

 

[kab32283]

He will be okay. My sim partner and one other in my class during initial were an ATP RJ program graduates and they did just fine.

Practice good CRM with your classmates...i.e. you learn from them, they learn from you. At this stage of the game, everyone can bring something to the table.

kab, if you want, when you get in class, PM me and I will get you in touch with them.

Thanks---will do!

Yes you can. While they may be doing better than the other guys with the book learning, the true measure is in being able to handle the actual airplane in heavy IMC, with the airport at mins and dealing with a multiple emergency. Only real world experience prepares you for that. Otherwise, don't you think that all the airlines would be hiring these guys, not just the regionals?
Just think of the tag line, "Come fly XXX airlines, our pilots may be young and inexperienced, but they're book smart!"

Well, this the main reason why I do not want to upgrade for a long time--I need that kind of experience in the right sight before I become a CA.

All I know is that been given a great opportunity, and as I see it now , I am behind the curve, so I need to work that much harder to get back to par.

Oh and don't worry....I plan making my voice heard when it comes to union issues, but after I get settled in first.

 

[kellwolf]

Well, this the main reason why I do not want to upgrade for a long time--I need that kind of experience in the right sight before I become a CA.

All I know is that been given a great opportunity, and as I see it now , I am behind the curve, so I need to work that much harder to get back to par.

Oh and don't worry....I plan making my voice heard when it comes to union issues, but after I get settled in first.

Keep that outlook, and you'll be okay. Just be ready to get blasted. There have been a LOT of low time guys ahead of you who's first question was "How soon can I upgrade?" A lot of them also have the attitudes that you can't teach or tell them anything b/c JetU already told them all they need to know.

 

[ctab5060X]

Yes you can. While they may be doing better than the other guys with the book learning, the true measure is in being able to handle the actual airplane in heavy IMC, with the airport at mins and dealing with a multiple emergency. Only real world experience prepares you for that. Otherwise, don't you think that all the airlines would be hiring these guys, not just the regionals?
Just think of the tag line, "Come fly XXX airlines, our pilots may be young and inexperienced, but they're book smart!"

You are judging them by their experience level... I never said that... I said you can't judge them by just the number of hours they have. Not every pilot's experiences are going to be the same. Someone might have 250 hours with a lot of IFR experiences going different places with friends and family, while another might have 250 hours of flying on calm, clear days only. Both have the same number of hours, but one clearly has more experience in IFR conditions and IFR operations than the other. It's not about the hours, it's about the experience level.

 

[v1valarob]

I've got 240TT and 12 Mutli.

Unless I missed something, you wont even have the PIC time required to upgrade when you are able to upgrade.

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

Unless I missed something, you wont even have the PIC time required to upgrade when you are able to upgrade.

For an ICAO ATP you have to have 1500 total hours, and 1200 PIC. Of the 1200 PIC, at least 150 must be actual PIC, and the remainder of the 1200 may be either PIC or 0.5xSIC.

For example if he only had 150 hrs PIC he would need an additional 2100hrs SIC to qualify for an ATP.

 

[AMH]

Unless I missed something, you wont even have the PIC time required to upgrade when you are able to upgrade.

Rob,
I was under the impression that you could take half of your SIC time and apply it to PIC for ATP and upgrade.


PS I hear they're gonna take "Arrested Development" to the big screen

 

[v1valarob]

For an ICAO ATP you have to have 1500 total hours, and 1200 PIC. Of the 1200 PIC, at least 150 must be actual PIC, and the remainder of the 1200 may be either PIC or 0.5xSIC.

For example if he only had 150 hrs PIC he would need an additional 2100hrs SIC to qualify for an ATP.

Ah ok. I knew that sic time could be used towards PIC. But I knew that there was still some type of PIC requirement that could not be bypassed. I thought it was 250 hours though of PIC.

AMH,
I love AD. I dont know about a movie though...

 

[meritflyer]

I think he'll do just fine, and the ATP RJ program will probably have been a great primer for him. He'll be a step or two ahead of the rest of his class.

240 and 12???

The guy is barely qualified to fly a Seminole let alone a RJ!

Man, am I glad I got out of the business. Remind me to never put my family on a RJ. Oh wait, I don't anyways.

SJS is alive and well.

 

[meritflyer]

He's got 12 hours of multi time and an RJ course. Nothing personal, but I find that sub-par to be an airline pilot in a jet that says Northwest on the side of it. Especially in these times. I agree, though, a guy like that is managements wet dream if they can get them to the line. No complaints, just happy to be here. As opposed to an actually well qualified 737 driver who needs a job that will be nothing but trouble, pro-union, and leave ASAP.

But, no, I don't think he should turn down the job. Just glad I'm not an IOE guy over there....

Finally. Don makes sense.

WELL SAID!!!

 

[meritflyer]

You should have sat through my new hire class. The low time RJ Program pilots were blowing the well qualified pilots out of the water at times. Remember, most of these guys just finished getting their licenses, so their brain was still in a learning mode, whereas some others hadn't seriously cracked a manual in years. Also the younger generation picked up the glass cockpit a whole lot faster than some of the others.

I've heard it all.

If I sat through some 'RJ course' prior to attending class, I'd be a step ahead as well... atlease initially.

Made me sit back and seriously reevaluate low time pilots flying for the regionals...you can't judge them by just how many hours they have.

I've lost all hope.

 

[meyers9163]

Hey sorry guys for getting your thread of topic! I really did just mean congrats on the job and was glad to see 9e kept their hires from before all the others furloughed. Perahps they had a reason but it'd have been very easy to pull the rug out from under you all. Anyways best of luck. As you can obviously see its a heated conversation and topic. All you can do is worry about yourself. And any questions about upgrade during FO initial are just retarded. So yeah dont be that guy.

 

[higney85]

If NASA called would you say "I've never been to space so I will pass up on being an astronaut?". The times are low but there is a reason behind 2 pilots and upgrade mins.

 

[Baronpilot244]

Man 240TT and 12ME. That is low! By any standards. I don't mean any offence - the ironic thing is that times like that wouldn't even come close to being able to fly the Baron (single pilot) I fly for a living from an insurance standpoint - let alone the experience level.

I consider myself a greenhorn with 900TT and 510ME - 445 of which are in Barons. 99.9% of my flights are single pilot IFR and a lot of times I fly approaches down to the nubs and a lot of these have been at night. Fierce crosswinds, short fields, grass strips, ugly weather and all sorts of other fun have been just some of the learning experiences I've gleaned over the past few years.

I suppose this is the way of the future - get the young guys who want to fly so bad they'll fly for nothing and put them in a super automated piece of equipment with a high time (ish) Cpt. Am I being cynical / missing something?

It almost seems if they put someone in who has been round the airline block they would run the risk of said person calling them on all the shortcomings - is it possible to "know too much"?

How did I get my job - well I knew someone. Would I go to the airlines, yes if I were forced to, but as of right now? No, I couldn't take the drop in pay. So for now I keep building time as a piston driver, but learning something new each time I fly. Trouble is, if and when I front up for a job at an airline I'll probably get knocked back because I'll have lots of hours (relatively speaking) and no turbine time and no shiny RJ book tucked under my arm.

If I did the course I could probably fly the sim perfectly as well - I fly the RJ Flight Sim X recreation all the time and shoot approaches using raw data and no autopilot - does that qualify me for anything? I think not!

I'm afraid I have to agree with Cptnchia - what do one know with 240 hours? I know what I knew back then.......diddly! (don't know much more now, but age does that to a person!)

By the way, I'm not being ugly! - congrats on the job offer. From what you have written it sounds as though you know full well you have a great deal to learn - that's a good thing!

BP244

 

[kellwolf]

Unless I missed something, you wont even have the PIC time required to upgrade when you are able to upgrade.

PCL's got a waiver from the FAA on the PIC time. Stems from when we used to hire a lot of GIA guys. Last I heard, they have to do more IOE than people that meet the PIC mins.