Pinnacle to resume classes!!!

[kellwolf]

How do the captains out there feel about working with a 280hr FO that has gone through the "jet course"?

Honestly, it depends on the attitude of the individual. You've got guys like the OP that know they've been given a golden opportunity and go into the situation humble, taking advice and willing to learn. Then you get guys like I flew with that feel they are owed a job b/c they paid for a jet course, feel they already know everything and are just counting the day 'till they're done with the new mentor program and their seniority can hold the left seat.

My beef isn't with the guys that take the jet courses, it's with the new hiring practices that pass over qualified pilots simply b/c they didn't pay thousands of dollars for a ground school preview. IMO, all it does is give the company one more tool to hire guys that are "just happy to be here" and are in a hurry to pay for an $18K a year job rather than up the pay and get guys that are better qualified to do the job. I know where I was as a pilot at 250-300 hours, and a jet course wouldn't have made me ready to sit right seat in a CRJ.

 

[DE727UPS]

"How do the captains out there feel about working with a 280hr FO that has gone
through the "jet course"?"

It doesn't matter how they feel or what they think. That's part of the problem...

 

[Trip7]

Actually, it was more of a "why do I keep drifiting" type thing, followed by 5-6 degree heading changes, followed by a pretty stiff bank at 20 feet off the ground. It was ALMOST followed by a coronary from the CA, but CFI instincts took over and he grabbed the controls to save the landing.

This was all going on as said CA was trying to coach the FO on how to set up for a cross wind landing in the CRJ. Too bad it was one of those guys that has the "I know it all" attitude. I think he tuned me out about half way through. Problem is, the jet courses probably don't go that in depth into cross wind landings and such, the guy only had about 280 hours COUNTING OE, and lately the winds have either been calm or right down the runway. Which means the check airman doing his OE had probably never even seen a cross wind landing by the guy.

Man, never seen that before. Must of looked ugly. Combined with a bad attitude, it must of been a long day for ya.

 

[todd405]

I see. Earlier this year one of the old instructors came by the school I work at and told me alot of really low timers were getting hired into RJs with the help of these jet courses. Come to find out it cost them about 5 to 7 thousand dollars. Too much for me, after all the money I have spent on my ratings I never was comfortable with paying someone to hire me.

 

[Ralgha]

Man, never seen that before. Must of looked ugly. Combined with a bad attitude, it must of been a long day for ya.

Of course I don't know the whole story, but with me and the limited story, if the guy hadn't shaped up after that, at the very least he wouldn't have been PNF for the rest of the day.

 

[kellwolf]

Of course I don't know the whole story, but with me and the limited story, if the guy hadn't shaped up after that, at the very least he wouldn't have been PNF for the rest of the day.

Thankfully, it was just a high speed. Maybe he just had a bad landing day, but I have a hard time believing that one. I'm with Ralgha, though. If I have an FO that has problems landing....we're gonna work on 'em.

 

[Trip7]

Thankfully, it was just a high speed. Maybe he just had a bad landing day, but I have a hard time believing that one. I'm with Ralgha, though. If I have an FO that has problems landing....we're gonna work on 'em.

The ATR can be tough in a X wind, but i heard the 200 is cake...

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

A rep from ASA HR department came on here and said the same thing a while back and got semi-flamed. In our new-hire material at ASA it said statistically (get ready to have a heart attack) that part 135 pilots had the most difficult time making the transition.

This doesn't surprise me. I had more problems with these guys on the line than any other group.

I keep hearing how guys with RJ courses do better in ground school. No kidding. Heck, a guy with an RJ course under his belt would probably do better than me in RJ ground school. I'm more concerned with post IOE.

I've already addressed this. I've flown with dozens of noobs from each category, and there is no discernible difference. An experienced CFI is just as lost in a CRJ for the first couple hundred hours as the 250 hour RJ course graduate.

How do the captains out there feel about working with a 280hr FO that has gone through the "jet course"?

I actually enjoyed it. It's one of the few things I miss about working at the regionals.

 

[SpiceWeasel]

Actually, it was more of a "why do I keep drifiting" type thing, followed by 5-6 degree heading changes, followed by a pretty stiff bank at 20 feet off the ground. It was ALMOST followed by a coronary from the CA, but CFI instincts took over and he grabbed the controls to save the landing.

This was all going on as said CA was trying to coach the FO on how to set up for a cross wind landing in the CRJ. Too bad it was one of those guys that has the "I know it all" attitude. I think he tuned me out about half way through. Problem is, the jet courses probably don't go that in depth into cross wind landings and such, the guy only had about 280 hours COUNTING OE, and lately the winds have either been calm or right down the runway. Which means the check airman doing his OE had probably never even seen a cross wind landing by the guy.

God... almost sounds like the guy that was in diff class. Unfortunately that makes at least 2 individuals out there like this since you were probably flying while he was in class. During CRM he explained how he took the controls from the Captain and did an aborted takeoff for smoke in the cockpit.... but they never actually put any masks on.... survey says, when they applied takeoff power condensation came from the vents. :crazy:

He also regaled us with the story of cancelling IFR at an altitude (I cannot remember exactly though I'm pretty sure it was well into Class A) that was quite high because the controllers hadn't issued descent instructions and they "weren't that far from the airport."

 

[NJA_Capt]

I've already addressed this. I've flown with dozens of noobs from each category, and there is no discernible difference.

This would be a skewed opinion, as you were one of them yourself. What you think is perfectly normal, someone with a deeper knowledge base to reference, may not share the same viewpoint.

 

[pilotlight]

This would be a skewed opinion, as you were one of them yourself. What you think is perfectly normal, someone with a deeper knowledge base to reference, may not share the same viewpoint.

Agreed, I can personally tell you that pilots that come in with an instructing background are hands down better first officers, and also hands down better captains. Anyone who tells you differently has never been a cfi and they don't know any better.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

I was a CFI.

 

[kellwolf]

God... almost sounds like the guy that was in diff class. Unfortunately that makes at least 2 individuals out there like this since you were probably flying while he was in class. During CRM he explained how he took the controls from the Captain and did an aborted takeoff for smoke in the cockpit.... but they never actually put any masks on.... survey says, when they applied takeoff power condensation came from the vents. :crazy:

He also regaled us with the story of cancelling IFR at an altitude (I cannot remember exactly though I'm pretty sure it was well into Class A) that was quite high because the controllers hadn't issued descent instructions and they "weren't that far from the airport."

YGBSM. He took the controls from the CA to abort for MIST? He's not MEM based, is he? That's like a leg-by-leg occurrence in the summer. And if I EVER hear the words "cancel IFR" (unless we're on the ground after landing at an uncontrolled field) come out of my FO's mouth, there will be duct tape and a beating involved. Too high and close? That's fine. Believe it or not, the CRJ can (and has by myself) done 360s in order to lose altitude. Or even a big box pattern based on radar vectors.

 

[SpiceWeasel]

Yeah I'm pretty sure that most of us in class were thinking "shut up so you quit digging that hole". The best part was later he almost replicated that stupid passenger with iPhone bit telling the pilots about the WX. He argued with TH about how many flights there were to a certain airport in FL on the Connection side of operations. Last guy you want to make yourself known to as a know it all is most definitely TH (if anyone, for that matter).

 

[Cptnchia]

Ever been in cruise at 3:30am?

every dang west coast redeye I fly...

 

[kellwolf]

Last guy you want to make yourself known to as a know it all is most definitely TH (if anyone, for that matter).

No doubt. I was getting the paperwork done on my SIC as a new hire, and TH was doing it. Saw my last name....he grew up with my dad.