Pilots earn less than airport window washers

wheelsup said:
It was a really bad time in America, and the pilot profession, that is for sure.

I agree if Delta had slashed pay, they would be underpaid. But like you said, pretty much everyone did so I fail to see how one is underpaid.

I do thank the unions, because had we been out there like most of America, the ones that have been here the longest would be the first to go (more expensive) and the companies would've hired new fresh entrants.

Very little money in the airline biz, therefore unions have very little ground to stand on in terms of gaining traction. Some fair better than others, like SWA. Some airlines are just horribly managed, and most likely will be gone. IE US Airways.

I believe if you went to a pure market based approach to hiring pilots, you would find that the pay scale would flatten considerably. The low pay would go up, probably 2x to start, and the high pay would come down, probably another 25% or more. Merit based upgrades. This is just my opinion though.

Ultimately, I personally want to be paid a good wage because my company values me, not because a union forced them to. That doesn't exist in the 121 world, where we are constantly told we are too expensive. Does bad things for morale (see again, US Airways).
Click to expand...

I don't think it's possible to be valued when you work for companies as large as airlines, where your whole goal is to be standard and not a cut above. It's hard to value something that's average, the same as everybody else, and literally indistinguishable from another of its kind.

That's exactly what are are, cogs in a machine. We're not this because of unions, we're this because the job demands us to be nothing more than a piece that fits into a machine exactly like all the others.

The union CREATES value for our position where there is none, and I'm a-ok with that.
 
Well you all talked about not "ho"ing yourself out to go work with xyz and I did. I'm with BNSF now, making 75K/yr+. Last year I made 18K as a CFI, Full Time, with cert rides. I even took a side job at the parking lot when winter hit with the blizzards. So I went somewhere with great pay, benefits, and a crap QOL, but it more than pays the bills. I'm even putting my wife back to school for a doctorate.

I waited my 4 years after graduating for a good job, but like many said 20K won't pay the bills. I did get student loan debt, I was anticipating starting at 35K and working up to 150K to finish. Now that it's 20K and 100K to finish it no longer makes sense. I would LOVE to go fly again. I too maintained a perfect safety record, taught hundreds of students, and studied my butt off. For no real gain besides a boot out the door when I went looking for a job. It has been a crappy economy, but the real enemy is ourselves.

Mostly the seniority system. I'm in my first year at BNSF. If I leave and go to say, UP, I get about the same pay. I make about 10K a year less than someone who has been here for 30 years. I have the option of horizontal job movement. With the airlines you don't. If you're harassed, abused, or just left out, you can't leave. You have to take a massive paycut, so people do stay at crappy jobs and support the low pay. That is bull. For a very educated workforce it's pretty stupid, and I wish someone would talk about it more than a snip it in the ALPA newsletter.

Here's the bottom line, I have a job that appreciates it's workforce, pays on time (and heavily), has great benefits and better QOL than the airlines. As a CFI I was underpaid, verbally abused (you're a dime a dozen, we're looking for older people to get rid of to get some new people in, well the student passed but they said you were too pricey), exhausted and no vacation or real benefits (health benefits were bad). Oh, I made below poverty working full time at a 141 operation with contracted students, and I had food stamps for about half of it.

Excuse me if I studied my butt off for 4 years, could help design or fix a wing, fix a student, fix an emergency, and want more than poverty. I really feel like the only time you've "paid your dues" is when the people asking you for your dues retire, a year before you. 40K should be the low starting pay, with the average starting of 55K+. If you disagree, fine, but don't vote low when ALPA comes around, think of the union that we can do better as a profession.

If you want to make 20K a year as a pilot, fine, either take time off, or donate your checks to those pilots that have a need. Vote for a higher wage though.
 
wheelsup said:
You say that, but how many people quit your carrier when pay was reduced about 50% and pensions were lost, and went to another carrier who paid more?
Click to expand...

By the truckload. Some went back to the military, most over 50 with 25 years in cruised and lots of people said to hell with it and bolted. Considering we went from 10,000-ish pilots down to 7,000-ish and certainly did not furlough 3,000.

Unless, of course, you were being sarcastic with the question.
 
Doug Taylor said:
By the truckload. Some went back to the military, most over 50 with 25 years in cruised and lots of people said to hell with it and bolted. Considering we went from 10,000-ish pilots down to 7,000-ish and certainly did not furlough 3,000.

Unless, of course, you were being sarcastic with the question.
Click to expand...

No, you proved my point. Not many left for higher paying carriers. Hence, not underpaid.

ETA: Looking at Delta compensation rates, certainly puts those pilots in the top tier of pay.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top