Pilots earn less than airport window washers

Which I totally understand. Making 50K/year is great and all being 19, but not having the time to enjoy it, or having uncle Sam take most of it away in taxes sucks. I am very fine with living a meager life. I wasn't raised in wealth, and had to work for what I have, granted it isn't much. I have crunched the numbers, and I can survive on that pay. As long as I can pay my mortgage, utilities, fill up my gas tank, and eat, I'm happy. No point in making money if I can't enjoy it.

Now if I had a family to worry about, or a girlfriend right now, that would be a much different story. I guess my life situation allows me to take a position like this. If only I had the opportunity.

For someone like yourself, I very much know the burdens you have to deal with. I honestly commend people like you who make a job like this whilst starting a family. It takes a lot of work. Luckily I'm nowhere near that.

Now back to my reality of getting lazy rampers to do their jobs. to think that when you come to work I expect you to work. I know, I'm such a dick.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
True, and I hear ya. Flying is cool and all that, but in reality you have to find a balance. Because flying an airplane doesn't pay the bills....money does.

I get what you're saying though, otherwise I wouldn't be doing what I do. Other than the flying airplanes, 99% of the other stuff about this job sucks. I guess its the flying and the hope that we'll move on to better things that keeps us going.
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Which I totally understand. Making 50K/year is great and all being 19, but not having the time to enjoy it, or having uncle Sam take most of it away in taxes sucks. I am very fine with living a meager life. I wasn't raised in wealth, and had to work for what I have, granted it isn't much. I have crunched the numbers, and I can survive on that pay. As long as I can pay my mortgage, utilities, fill up my gas tank, and eat, I'm happy. No point in making money if I can't enjoy it.

Now if I had a family to worry about, or a girlfriend right now, that would be a much different story. I guess my life situation allows me to take a position like this. If only I had the opportunity.

For someone like yourself, I very much know the burdens you have to deal with. I honestly commend people like you who make a job like this whilst starting a family. It takes a lot of work. Luckily I'm nowhere near that.

Now back to my reality of getting lazy rampers to do their jobs. to think that when you come to work I expect you to work. I know, I'm such a dick.
 
DPApilot said:
I'm on first year pay as a ramp sup, and going to any regional would be a pay cut, in some up to 70%. But for myself, money does not buy happiness, and flying makes me happy. People complain about horrid duty days, but after a few 40+ hour shifts with a 2 hour off time in between which you can't fall asleep, none of that seems bad. 85 hour work weeks doing manual labor aren't fun. Add my current 3 hours of commute currently until I can move into my house and it really isn't all that fun on the ground.

I know it sucks just as much flying, but in the end you're flying, and I am not.
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I spent the entire day today working outside raking up my dead lawn, putting down fertilizer and seed, and running hoses for my sprinklers. Day laborer type work. Hard work, out in the sun. What would it pay? Probably around $8/hr, if that.

Just a few days ago, when I went to work, I earned $400/hr working a turn for a total of 3 hours. Yeah, I had to wear a tie, and had to clear customs, but overall it was a pretty easy day compared to what I did today. Oh, and Tyra Banks was in the back (she's tall BTW). Pilots live a pretty pampered life most days (some will suck).
 
wheelsup said:
I spent the entire day today working outside raking up my dead lawn, putting down fertilizer and seed, and running hoses for my sprinklers. Day laborer type work. Hard work, out in the sun. What would it pay? Probably around $8/hr, if that.

Just a few days ago, when I went to work, I earned $400/hr working a turn for a total of 3 hours. Yeah, I had to wear a tie, and had to clear customs, but overall it was a pretty easy day compared to what I did today. Oh, and Tyra Banks was in the back (she's tall BTW). Pilots live a pretty pampered life most days (some will suck).
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There's good days and bad everywhere. I've had a few days getting paid $26/he on double time ( remember, I'm still on first year pay, don't get a raise until next month) to sit and watch tv and surf JC. But those days are few and far between.
 
DPApilot said:
There's good days and bad everywhere. I've had a few days getting paid $26/he on double time ( remember, I'm still on first year pay, don't get a raise until next month) to sit and watch tv and surf JC. But those days are few and far between.
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My guess is, the people that complain about the pay or the job, have never had a job outside "pilot" and most likely don't do much physical labor. I'd put my worst day as a pilot up against my best day working at a dog kennel/farm shoveling horse poop. In the end, pilots are a (well educated) blue collar labor force.
 
wheelsup said:
My guess is, the people that complain about the pay or the job, have never had a job outside "pilot" and most likely don't do much physical labor. I'd put my worst day as a pilot up against my best day working at a dog kennel/farm shoveling horse poop. In the end, pilots are a (well educated) blue collar labor force.
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I made a lot more money doing physical labor than I can working for a regional (first 5 or so years) and I did not have to pay for any training. It was all paid for by the employer or learned on the job.

I paid a lot of money for pilot training and want to see a return on the investment.

I love flying but I also love being able to pay for my car, food, insurance, heat, rent, phone, clothing, student loans.........I mean.....I need to be able to pay for all these things.

Anyways....my two cents....we should be paid a "living" wage.
 
nwpac said:
I made a lot more money doing physical labor than I can working for a regional (first 5 or so years) and I did not have to pay for any training. It was all paid for by the employer or learned on the job.

I paid a lot of money for pilot training and want to see a return on the investment.

I love flying but I also love being able to pay for my car, food, insurance, heat, rent, phone, clothing, student loans.........I mean.....I need to be able to pay for all these things.

Anyways....my two cents....we should be paid a "living" wage.
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We should, but we aren't.

Now I'm depressed about where I'm at in life.

Sent from High Noon's telegraph on Iphoneeeeee!
 
DPApilot said:
We should, but we aren't.

Now I'm depressed about where I'm at in life.

Sent from High Noon's telegraph on Iphoneeeeee!
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Like I said in a previous post, this is the unions fault, not managements. It was the pilots union who negotiated low starting pay but high top end.
 
wheelsup said:
Like I said in a previous post, this is the unions fault, not managements. It was the pilots union who negotiated low starting pay but high top end.
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You don't think the pilot who'll work for any amount of money so he can sit in the shinny jet has anything to do with low pay?
 
wheelsup said:
It's great you have been blessed with some excellent job opportunities; however that is not the case of the person I was responding to.

Another problem with unemployment is medical insurance. We have some really good BC/BS coverage here and if I was on unemployment, the UE payout wouldn't even cover COBRA. As it is, our contribution is contractually limited to a fairly low (IMHO) amount.

Also your livable wage is certainly more than mine, I can get by on not that much. Although it has certainly increased since being a CFI! House, Blockbuster, internet, medical insurance, tools (play money), cell phone with internet access, eating out vs eating in, etc. etc.
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I have been blessed. However, I have always insisted on finding a job with both a good qol and a living wage. It pays off in the end.
 
seaav8tor said:



Rarely do you see the story right in the media..... but this time these guys hit the nail on the head.


http://californiawatch.org/dailyreport/pilots-sometimes-earn-less-airport-window-washers-12398


...........On regional airlines, their starting salaries range from about $20.50 to $29 per hour. That is significantly less than the skipper of a passenger ferry on San Francisco Bay, records compiled by California Watch show. Some earn less than toll takers on the Golden Gate Bridge or state prison nurses. Pilots for regional airlines “are paid considerably less to work more hours,” says Brandon Macsata, executive director of the Association for Airline Passenger Rights, an independent organization of air travelers..........

...........Financial pressure is intense for regional airlines, says Bob Mann of R.W. Mann & Co., an airline consulting firm. As a result, the regionals offer modest pay and limited mobility. When it comes to pilots, regional airlines are not always able “to compensate somebody at a livable wage,” he says.

Further capping pilots’ pay are flight restrictions. To limit fatigue, the Federal Aviation Administration restricts the hours pilots can fly. Pilots can fly a maximum of eight hours per day, 100 hours per week and 1,000 hours per year. A first officer who earns $20.50 per hour can expect to make a maximum of $20,500 a year.

The regionals give regular raises to pilots as they get more flying experience. But even after five years, their wages often are lower than those of California Highway Patrol officers, U.S. Postal Service letter carriers and city garbage collectors, records show........
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I'm going into my 8th year as a "regional pilot" and will make over $110,000 this year not including per diem. I think this article takes the bottom of the barrel regional FO's as an example.
 
wheelsup said:
My guess is, the people that complain about the pay or the job, have never had a job outside "pilot" and most likely don't do much physical labor. I'd put my worst day as a pilot up against my best day working at a dog kennel/farm shoveling horse poop. In the end, pilots are a (well educated) blue collar labor force.
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I was paid way more as a Plumber than a pilot. I started at $15.00 an hour because I had a small pickup I got extra money to run to the shop or the hardware store. Once I could sweat pipe and put in drains and vents my pay jumped into the high twenties. Once I was able to rough in an entire job I started making 40 an hour and i mean pay when you show up until you leave. Also if you tried to pull B.S. like you only get paid when the parking brake is off with the plumbers you would likely have guys walk off the job. This all occurred in about one year. To be fair it was during the insane 2002-2004 era not as good now. I used the money to get my comm multi engine.

Also as a side note my plumbing mantra still holds true for aviation: pay day is on Friday, goes downhill and don't eat the last bite of your sandwich.
 
People saying "don't complain" just because the job is better than some jobs out there need to go to an island where they can ruin things for themselves, by themselves. Yeah, there are some jobs worse, and there are a lot of jobs that are better too. It's besides the point. Anybody operating an aircraft full of bodies should be able to afford to live on 1st year pay. End of argument. 20k the first year is pathetic! I did the math, I could make 14k a year at my old k-mart job working the maximum allowable hours per week (39). A regional pilot, who put in hours of hard work everyday for 4 years getting his certs and college degree, recieves pay barely above that of a 16 year old kid working his first job. This makes perfect sense!
 
You have 3 options then: go back to Kmart, get another job, or make yours better. Of course there's always the option of toughing it out to year 8 and making $110k as one poster mentioned. Anyhoo, good luck.
 
BigWaveDave said:
Also as a side note my plumbing mantra still holds true for aviation: pay day is on Friday, goes downhill and don't eat the last bite of your sandwich.
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Why would you never eat the last bite of your sandwich? My bites are pretty big so that's like a quarter sandwich right there.
 
pullup said:
Why would you never eat the last bite of your sandwich? My bites are pretty big so that's like a quarter sandwich right there.
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Haha because if your a plumber you don't want to eat what's on your hands. Same goes for a 135 pilot who has just cleaned up the cabin and lav ( usually but not always me ).

Or as I used to say, same different sandwich...

Yes being a pilot is generally better than an unskilled laborer but you don't need to take out a loan to become a day laborer. The Hispanic guys on the corner who are not even legal to work are asking 10 cash to move rocks etc. They generally have zero skills and no right to work. 10 cash = about 14 an hour taxed. More than my first flight instructing gig and well within 10 an hour of a first year regional FO. Zero investment in the trade, equal job security, no drug testing or even work schedule and no responsibility or commuting. Those guys all get together and agree on a bottom line price and they won't undercut each other. Those guys are much better at labor organizing than most pilots IMHO.
 
BigWaveDave said:
Haha because if your a plumber you don't want to eat what's on your hands. Same goes for a 135 pilot who has just cleaned up the cabin and lav ( usually but not always me ).

Or as I used to say, same different sandwich...

Yes being a pilot is generally better than an unskilled laborer but you don't need to take out a loan to become a day laborer. The Hispanic guys on the corner who are not even legal to work are asking 10 cash to move rocks etc. They generally have zero skills and no right to work. 10 cash = about 14 an hour taxed. More than my first flight instructing gig and well within 10 an hour of a first year regional FO. Zero investment in the trade, equal job security, no drug testing or even work schedule and no responsibility or commuting. Those guys all get together and agree on a bottom line price and they won't undercut each other. Those guys are much better at labor organizing than most pilots IMHO.
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As a plumber, nah, I wouldn't eat with hands that hadn't been washed. But as a wrench, my sandwhich was usually grease stained before I was finished eating it.
 
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