Part 135 operators who are by the book (or at least try really hard to be)

[v1valarob]

Folks I am 100 hour short of ATP min. Does that answer why I don't go 121? ....sigh.

I want to build time that would give me more mileage towards career in major. Operating multi turbine planes is definitely going to get me further. I consider 135 because of that and if QOL is good I might even stay more than a year. If anyone give me a type I will stay at least a year to be fair. Plus charter experience will make me more hirable to corporate flight department if I ever want to go that route. It is good to have options...

I am willing to make some sacrifice. However the line is in the sand there ...where it involves breaking regs.

So youre gonna rush into a 135 over 100 hours? If you go 135 youre only looking at about 300 hours a year. If you go 121 youre looking at 700 plus. Its worth the wait. I know endeavor will hire you 100 hours short and then give you a class date when you hit the time.

I flew 121 for many years. Im currently 135 and its terrible in comparison, and Im comparing a 135 that follows the rules with only my regional 121 experience. If you enjoy having ZERO control over your life, then go 135. At least at the regionals you typically have 11 days per month that are truly yours.

 

[Boris Badenov]

You're at the wrong 135. Guys in my shop have approximately 13 days off, at home, untouchable. Provided they want them. If not, there are currently lots of overtime opportunities.

I'm not saying it's great, it often isn't. And I'm not saying this dude should go 135...If I were in his spot I would do exactly what you advise and wait 100 hours then go to a regional with guaranteed flow. It's almost a no-brainer from a career perspective.

BUT, this notion that every charter company job is essentially indentured servitude is...Eh, out of date. Now, if we get back to the recent oversupply of pilots, it will almost certainly go back that way...None of this has anything to do with the goodness of anyone's heart or an overwhelming desire to Do What's Right.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

Exactly. Things were awful on the 121 side and the 135 side for the last 10 years. Now they are getting better.

 

[hook_dupin]

To the people saying their shops go by the book, what is their process for doing so? Enough crews per plane?

We didn't take trips if the staff weren't available.

 

[av8tr1]

We didn't take trips if the staff weren't available.

I'm going to hang this post in the office above your desk. Right at your eye level.

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

To the people saying their shops go by the book, what is their process for doing so? Enough crews per plane?

They simply accept the fact that having crews on call 24 hours a day isn't worth potential FAA enforcement, and don't book trips without being able to put the crew on rest 10 hours before accepting the assignment. It's pretty simple.

 

[Fly_Unity]

Many 135 companies follow the rules. However my suggestion is, if you only want to build a 100 hours then go to the airlines, please dont waste the operators time.

 

[pete2800]

If they want to have a beer they just text the scheduler to let him/her know.

That's the best system I've ever heard of. I'd be setting alarms, and I'd drink a beer every 8 hours for the rest of my life.

 

[Inverted]

They simply accept the fact that having crews on call 24 hours a day isn't worth potential FAA enforcement, and don't book trips without being able to put the crew on rest 10 hours before accepting the assignment. It's pretty simple.

Or how about, they don't want a crew lawn darting a multi million dollar jet with a high profile client in the back because the crew was on call 24/7... Lots of companies take it a step further than just from a regulatory standpoint.

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

Or how about, they don't want a crew lawn darting a multi million dollar jet with a high profile client in the back because the crew was on call 24/7... Lots of companies take it a step further than just from a regulatory standpoint.

Let's be honest, that doesn't really happen that often in the real world. Obviously, fatigue can a factor in any accident, but it is rarely the primary cause.

 

[Inverted]

Let's be honest, that doesn't really happen that often in the real world. Obviously, fatigue can a factor in any accident, but it is rarely the primary cause.

Yea I would check that statement again.

 

[SrFnFly227]

There are definitely companies out there that follow the rules. Many of those tend to be the ones with an 8/6 schedule and home basing. Just the business model alone tends to lead to enough flying that you just keep going while with a plane. Your off days are also hard off days and you are never attached to the phone on them. Some small shops do it by the book also though.

I work for a small management company (4 planes) that has a 10 or more 135 certificate. Our crews are never on call for charters. The company's unwritten policy is that if we haven't heard from them by dinner, we are off the next day. Feel free to go to the beach, out on a boat, drink an adult beverage, etc. It's great for day to day quality of life, but we also don't have a written vacation policy. That makes planning a vacation difficult.

For the OP, you need to ask what the call out time is. 24/7 on call can be perfectly legal under one very specific condition. The call from the company has to be followed by 10 hours of rest before your show time. That isn't exactly ideal, but it would allow you to have a life. If the call is to tell you to be at the airport in an hour, then it's illegal.

 

[Inverted]

There are definitely companies out there that follow the rules. Many of those tend to be the ones with an 8/6 schedule and home basing. Just the business model alone tends to lead to enough flying that you just keep going while with a plane. Your off days are also hard off days and you are never attached to the phone on them. Some small shops do it by the book also though.

I work for a small management company (4 planes) that has a 10 or more 135 certificate. Our crews are never on call for charters. The company's unwritten policy is that if we haven't heard from them by dinner, we are off the next day. Feel free to go to the beach, out on a boat, drink an adult beverage, etc. It's great for day to day quality of life, but we also don't have a written vacation policy. That makes planning a vacation difficult.

For the OP, you need to ask what the call out time is. 24/7 on call can be perfectly legal under one very specific condition. The call from the company has to be followed by 10 hours of rest before your show time. That isn't exactly ideal, but it would allow you to have a life. If the call is to tell you to be at the airport in an hour, then it's illegal.

Unwritten policy and not calling after dinner is illegal, it is not following the regulations.

Also, there is no way to be on call 24/7 legally, that's a fairly comical statement. You must be given a duty period, then before the duty period ends, be given your duty start for the next duty period BEFORE you are shut off because your off time is free from all company restraint. Meaning they can try and contact you but you have no obligation to answer.

 

[Boris Badenov]

There are multiple Letters of Interpretation out on this, but somehow the myth persists. Duty must be planned and briefed ahead of time. 24/7 on call or "rolling rest" is illegal, full stop, no gray area.

 

[Dugie8]

You absolutely can be on call 24/7.


Wait for it





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[Apophis]

Let's be honest, that doesn't really happen that often in the real world. Obviously, fatigue can a factor in any accident, but it is rarely the primary cause.

It only has to happen once. This is a really dumb excuse.

 

[Inverted]

It's also a stupid statement. Fatigue has been a contributing factor in countless fatal accidents.

 

[SrFnFly227]

Unwritten policy and not calling after dinner is illegal, it is not following the regulations.

I am going to say it again because I think you misread my post. I am never on call for a day of charter. Period. My company does not do pop up trips. They are very clear about this. I'm at home today and have absolutely zero chance of getting assigned a flight. As per our policy, if I haven't heard anything by dinner TONIGHT, then I am off again TOMORROW. I am aware of all charters at least the day before the flight.

Also, there is no way to be on call 24/7 legally, that's a fairly comical statement. You must be given a duty period, then before the duty period ends, be given your duty start for the next duty period BEFORE you are shut off because your off time is free from all company restraint. Meaning they can try and contact you but you have no obligation to answer.

Again, I don't think that you read my entire statement. Legally, a company can absolutely have an employee on call 24/7 (well, technically only 24/7 minus 13 days a quarter). They just can't assign a show time without giving you rest first. The Chief Counsel states the following when it comes to rest:

"Section 135.267(d) requires that flight crewmembers must have at least 10 consecutive hours of rest during the 24-hour period preceding the planned completion time of the assignment made under Part 135.267(b). A rest period must be (1) continuous, (2) determined prospectively (i.e., known in advance), and (3) free from all restraint from the certificate holder, including freedom from work or freedom from present responsibility for work should the occasion arise."

A company could have a policy that a pilot must answer the phone at any time other than during a prearranged rest period. They just wouldn't be able to assign a show time until 10 hours after the phone call was made. Basically, the call from the company would be to inform you that you are on rest for the next 10 hours. That would abide by the law. It would suck, but it would be legal.

 

[Inverted]

NO

 

[SrFnFly227]

NO

Please explain why not? What about that policy would be illegal?