OhioStatePilot
Well-Known Member
That's a good article.
Overfly at 500ft or 1000ft?
- Thread starter PlaneCrazy
- Start date
That's a good article.
Douglas
Old School KSUX
That is just the way we teach it and the way I heard almost all others teach it, but I have heard one DPE teach to cross at TPA.
In the radio call while crossing mid-field, you include your altitude and they are looking for you exactly where you said you would be.
I teach in the sticks now, but when I still taught in the SouthEast, patterns got so full teaching stopped and we eventually called it a day. (i.e. 3 helicopters in right traffic, 4 airplanes in left traffic, people entering and leaving and straight in jet arrivals.) Crossing at TPA wasn't smart and many locals tried to do that while I was on down wind. I've seen enough shiny airplanes up close at my altitude. So I say stay up out of fray until you know you are clear to descend with visual on the other planes.
I like it because of the distance from the (halfway down final/base-to-final) go-arounds, and other traffic already established on down-wind.
I am a 500-plus believer.
--------
I wish we had airplanes that could make an over-head break look good.
C-150 might look kinda silly.
And that's key, IMO. Wasn't saying you were wrong, just wondering the logic behind the particular technique.
--------
I wish we had airplanes that could make an over-head break look good.
C-150 might look kinda silly.
Coming from the world of overhead patterns as standard, am still primed to watch for them in the pattern, and plan around them if I'm not taking part. Pavlovian, I know
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
That's not always possible, unfortunately.
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
Schinpop
Well-Known Member
This is the one I prefer. First, you are at TPA, and you should have been there since you were within 4 miles of the airport, right? Next, when you join the upwind, you can look at the runway and the traffic pattern, identify all the players, and figure out when you can make a crosswind to best fit into the flow of traffic. Finally, I believe it gives you the best probability of seeing NORDO aircraft.
I really don't like a crosswind entry, midfield at TPA. One, you really have no way of "working" into the traffic flow. Second, this is a really bad idea at a field with parachute operations.
killbilly
Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
Hmm.
My CFI taught me that if I can't get an advisory or wind conditions, and the downwind was on the other side of the field, to overfly at midfield 500-1000' feet above TPA (crap, I can't remember what he taught me re: altitude now....back to the AIM) so I could at least get a look at the windsock or tee. Once past the field, begin a descent to TPA and turn appropriately to enter the downwind on a 45.
Now I need to double check my procedures.
My CFI taught me that if I can't get an advisory or wind conditions, and the downwind was on the other side of the field, to overfly at midfield 500-1000' feet above TPA (crap, I can't remember what he taught me re: altitude now....back to the AIM) so I could at least get a look at the windsock or tee. Once past the field, begin a descent to TPA and turn appropriately to enter the downwind on a 45.
Now I need to double check my procedures.
Hmm.
My CFI taught me that if I can't get an advisory or wind conditions, and the downwind was on the other side of the field, to overfly at midfield 500-1000' feet above TPA (crap, I can't remember what he taught me re: altitude now....back to the AIM) so I could at least get a look at the windsock or tee. Once past the field, begin a descent to TPA and turn appropriately to enter the downwind on a 45.
Now I need to double check my procedures.
Communicate that on CTAF, and it'd work fine. Another technique....good that you don't descend into the downwind leg, IMO.
TheresaPilot
Well-Known Member
:yeahthat:
DING DING DING!
A 7000' runway on a nice cool day with only one person and half tanks in a 172 is more than enough distance to get to TPA by the departure numbers. I think I could even do it in a 150 given the right circumstances.
unclenobby
Well-Known Member
TheresaPilot
Well-Known Member
I teach, if you have to overfly, overfly at 1000' above TPA then once at pattern distance (~1 mile from midfield, above downwind), start to decend and tear drop in on a 45 and you shouldn't have any problem being at TPA by downwind. And always communicate your intentions, if possible.
That's why I was saying a midfield cross at TPA, highly doubtful anyone would be up at TPA by then.....
......yes, yes, I know....What if we were at the pattern at Rogers Dry Lake at Edwards AFB, with the 37,000' runway, and someone does a go around?.......:banghead:
Agree! Good, safe technique.
TheresaPilot
Well-Known Member
Mine was in response to mini responding to MattC. But I still think that wouldn't be safe in the event of go-around traffic. You can start a go-around as far out as you want and be up at TPA by midfield.
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
See + Avoid.
Which is why I mentioned staying 500' below TPA on a go around until at depature end. At least that's the requirement we have in the military, but then again, we have an overhead pattern above us. But still a good technique, IMO, to avoid TPA crossovers at the midfield or anywhere through departure end.
killbilly
Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
Yes, I should have mentioned that he DID teach me to call it off. Maybe it's over-use of the radio, but I call it out about a mile before crossing midfield and again right over midfield. Once I get out far enough to make the teardrop I call the intention to join on the 45, and then again once I'm established on the downwind.
Theresa - you probably know or have met my CFI. He teaches out of TKI and Rockwall both.
TheresaPilot
Well-Known Member
Student pilots that are being taught this technique with the midfield at TPA can barely tell their booty from a hole in the ground let alone look for traffic enough to see and avoid. At least, that's been my experience with the wonderful student pilots. Not saying I wasn't one myself, either. :laff:
Which is why adhering to a good procedure, like I mentioned, would help....especially with those running on pure rote.
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
That's not being taught right out of the gate?
