TheresaPilot
Well-Known Member
I did totally miss that part, but....
Usually in a 172 in the summer, in the sweltering heat that is Texas, this isn't a problem for students and myself. Lol.
Overfly at 500ft or 1000ft?
- Thread starter PlaneCrazy
- Start date
I did totally miss that part, but....
Usually in a 172 in the summer, in the sweltering heat that is Texas, this isn't a problem for students and myself. Lol.
I did totally miss that part, but....
Usually in a 172 in the summer, in the sweltering heat that is Texas, this isn't a problem for students and myself. Lol.
lol...and how old/used/tired is the particular 172?
TheresaPilot
Well-Known Member
No matter how hard you try, I think there's too much goin on for them on a solo XC for them to really be doing as good of a scan as they have been taught. I'm not saying all, I just think that most are still so overwhelmed by the fact that they're actually flying an airplane that they "scan" but not nearly as good as they should until they get some more time under their belts and aren't grinning ear to ear the whole flight.
killbilly
Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
lol...and how old/used/tired is the particular 172?
You haven't flown much in TX. That's pretty much par for ANY 172 with two people in it.
TheresaPilot
Well-Known Member
lol...and how old/used/tired is the particular 172?
Haha. Let's just say she's been arooooooooooound town.
TheresaPilot
Well-Known Member
:yeahthat: Even newer (2000 and newer) still dog it.You haven't flown much in TX. That's pretty much par for ANY 172 with two people in it.
Maurus
The Great Gazoo
I wouldn't recommend this. Only time an upwind pattern is mentioned by the FAA is for go-arounds.
Also, helicopter traffic will often use the opposite traffic pattern that aircraft are using as they have to remain clear of the fixed wing traffic. We have had a few close calls between fixed wing and helicopter traffic from people always entering on the upwind leg of the pattern.
TheresaPilot
Well-Known Member
So she's a classic, then?
1979, BAYBAY! Lol. Not that I'm flying her anymore, but last summer... WHEEEEE DOGGY! :buck:
Talk about off the original topic.
Oopsies
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
1979, BAYBAY! Lol. Not that I'm flying her anymore, but last summer... WHEEEEE DOGGY! :buck:
Talk about off the original topic.
1979? That's young!
TheresaPilot
Well-Known Member
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
yeahhhhh!!!! TWITA !
tlewis95
I drive planes
The 1946 C140 out climbs the C150/152 without much of a problem.
I always get to TPA as soon as I see the airport (unless obstructions or terrain make me do something different) and where I cross for a crosswind entry depends on the length of the runway, (or my altitude... if in a glider) but is usually at the "far" end from touch down on most of the runways I am landing on.
I really don't like any dropping into TPA on ANY leg of the pattern, that is how a lot of mid-airs happen.
I always get to TPA as soon as I see the airport (unless obstructions or terrain make me do something different) and where I cross for a crosswind entry depends on the length of the runway, (or my altitude... if in a glider) but is usually at the "far" end from touch down on most of the runways I am landing on.
I really don't like any dropping into TPA on ANY leg of the pattern, that is how a lot of mid-airs happen.
Cessnaflyer
Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Haha I had that exact same thing happen to me at that exact same airport. He kept saying I wasn't making enough calls in the pattern. I said it doesn't matter because I am taxiing on the ground! :banghead:
TFaudree_ERAU
Mashin' dem buttons
This is beginning to sound like an FAA inspector's conference. Eleven people, twenty seven varying interpretations.
CoffeeIcePapers
Well-Hung Member
Here's my interpretation...
In an ideal situation, I'm going to cross the extended center-line at least three miles away from the departure (or arrival) end of the runway at least 1000' above TPA and allow myself to get a good 3 miles out before I start descending to TPA then maneuver for the 45deg entry to left downwind. This way I can view the situation from a decent distance out, and not have to worry so much about mid-airs. Obviously looking out for anyone that is straight out (or in) and obviously making my radio calls.
If for some reason this is not an option, but I can't think of many reasons (and not wanting to 'waste' the extra time is not a good one) I will cross midfield 1000' above TPA, but I'm still gonna have to go a decent distance out in order to descend and perform my tear drop so that I'm not descending into downwind.
In an ideal situation, I'm going to cross the extended center-line at least three miles away from the departure (or arrival) end of the runway at least 1000' above TPA and allow myself to get a good 3 miles out before I start descending to TPA then maneuver for the 45deg entry to left downwind. This way I can view the situation from a decent distance out, and not have to worry so much about mid-airs. Obviously looking out for anyone that is straight out (or in) and obviously making my radio calls.
If for some reason this is not an option, but I can't think of many reasons (and not wanting to 'waste' the extra time is not a good one) I will cross midfield 1000' above TPA, but I'm still gonna have to go a decent distance out in order to descend and perform my tear drop so that I'm not descending into downwind.
Matt13C
Well-Known Member
I was just giving another option to be considered. As has been discussed there is no regulation determining correct pattern entry. Pattern entry should be tailored to the field conditions.
jhugz
Guppy gear swinger
Traffic pattern entry is recommend so technically there is no right or wrong way to enter the traffic pattern. However lets look at this at another angle. Lets say God-Forbid a mid-air happens that someone how you survive but the pilot and co-pilot die in the other plane. When that family takes you to court they are going to argue that even though you were not technically breaking any rules you didn't follow recommended procedures. I am no aviation attorney but it seems like you may be able to be found liable. Everyone knows that the FAA recommends some stupid stuff like oxygen above 5k at night which I don't think anyone follows. However especially for me, mid-airs have been driven home through my instructor which had his instructor die in a mid-air. The most lethal accident one can encounter in an airplane is not a engine failure or fire but when one airplane touches another in the sky. It in my opinion is nothing to get creative with. The AIM RECOMMENDS to enter the pattern in level flight abeam the midpoint of the runway at pattern altitude. This statement makes me believe that there are basically three ways to enter the pattern the FAA RECOMMENDED way.
1.) 45 to Downwind
2.) 45 to Upwind
3.) Midfield Crosswind
To me it seems that flying over the field for the teardrop entry is just useless. You are increasing workload for yourself during a critical phase of flight and it is just isn't practical for the student.
As said before flying over the field is an unnecessary danger due to jet traffic at 1500 AGL or even traffic in cruise at 2000 AGL.
My $1.25
Fly Safe,
jhugz
P.S. : Please don't ever depart the traffic pattern on the crosswind...you will kill someone that way.
1.) 45 to Downwind
2.) 45 to Upwind
3.) Midfield Crosswind
To me it seems that flying over the field for the teardrop entry is just useless. You are increasing workload for yourself during a critical phase of flight and it is just isn't practical for the student.
As said before flying over the field is an unnecessary danger due to jet traffic at 1500 AGL or even traffic in cruise at 2000 AGL.
My $1.25
Fly Safe,
jhugz
P.S. : Please don't ever depart the traffic pattern on the crosswind...you will kill someone that way.
LatitudeDancer
Well-Known Member
From 4(f)(2)(ii-iv) in AC 90-48C (http://www.avweb.com/news/features/183050-1.html):
(ii) When entering a known traffic pattern at a nontower airport, keep a sharp lookout for other aircraft in the pattern. Enter the pattern in level flight and allow plenty of spacing to avoid overtaking or cutting any aircraft out of the pattern.
(iii) When approaching an unfamiliar airport fly over or circle the airport at least 500 feet above traffic pattern altitude (usually at 2,000 feet or more above the surface) to observe the airport layout, any local traffic in the area, and the wind and traffic direction indicators. Never descend into the traffic pattern from directly above the airport.
(iv) Be particularly alert before turning to the base leg, final approach course, and during the final approach to landing. At nontower airports, avoid entering the traffic pattern on the base leg or from a straight-in approach to the landing runway.
I honestly have never overflown at 2,000 or above. I'd need binoculars to see the windsock, etc.
(ii) When entering a known traffic pattern at a nontower airport, keep a sharp lookout for other aircraft in the pattern. Enter the pattern in level flight and allow plenty of spacing to avoid overtaking or cutting any aircraft out of the pattern.
(iii) When approaching an unfamiliar airport fly over or circle the airport at least 500 feet above traffic pattern altitude (usually at 2,000 feet or more above the surface) to observe the airport layout, any local traffic in the area, and the wind and traffic direction indicators. Never descend into the traffic pattern from directly above the airport.
(iv) Be particularly alert before turning to the base leg, final approach course, and during the final approach to landing. At nontower airports, avoid entering the traffic pattern on the base leg or from a straight-in approach to the landing runway.
I honestly have never overflown at 2,000 or above. I'd need binoculars to see the windsock, etc.
