///AMG
Well-Known Member
haha that is my next life goal. Not sure how I get to there from here, but I am prepping my • hottest TPC that is infinitely short, yet still hits all the buzzwords.....that's all I need right? And "how'd we do?" at the end?
Opinions
- Thread starter ZapBrannigan
- Start date
haha that is my next life goal. Not sure how I get to there from here, but I am prepping my • hottest TPC that is infinitely short, yet still hits all the buzzwords.....that's all I need right? And "how'd we do?" at the end?
alaskadrifter
Landing gear operator
Working on type rating #2 and I still catch my self half way through a brief before I remember to ask for threats.
///AMG
Well-Known Member
"Threaten me"
charlie1017
Well-Known Member
I can confirm this with really stiff crosswinds on the 737NG (700/800/900). As the takeoff roll progresses, you can definitely feel the downwind wing dipping like you mentioned. Its more pronounced than in the MD and Bus I flew prior to it.
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
With the caveat that I've never flown an Airbus, I've always felt that an airplane is an airplane. A little aileron into the wind makes a crosswind takeoff in a 737 feel a little less squirrelly. Looks like my view is in the minority though, which is exactly what I came here to find out.
arkflyr
Well-Known Member
1. Yeah sometimes
2. Yes and admittedly you got me thinking and since I was up with the baby anyway I looked it up. The AOM says small control wheel inputs, as needed, to maintain wings level. Large control wheel inputs can have an adverse effect on directional control near VMCG due to the additional drag of the extended spoilers. The only airplane that I have flown where this was specifically prohibited that I can remember was the Falcon 900. Its been too long since I've flown the Lear but I think I used a bit of correction in that thing but I honestly don't remember.
3. Nope
2. Yes and admittedly you got me thinking and since I was up with the baby anyway I looked it up. The AOM says small control wheel inputs, as needed, to maintain wings level. Large control wheel inputs can have an adverse effect on directional control near VMCG due to the additional drag of the extended spoilers. The only airplane that I have flown where this was specifically prohibited that I can remember was the Falcon 900. Its been too long since I've flown the Lear but I think I used a bit of correction in that thing but I honestly don't remember.
3. Nope
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
Thanks for looking it up. Guess I could’ve done that before I asked. Didn’t expect it to be in there to be honest.
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
I never knew that about the Falcon 900… or maybe I forgot.
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BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
I always forget to look at the performance data and ATIS before I read the performance part of the laminate card. It would be cool if I remembered and then didn’t sit there facing away from the captain scrolling like an idiot during the 10 or so seconds that is my brief.
Also they should just make all the data wet data for SE from November through April. Like every leg it’s dry data and I have to brief not forgetting new T/O numbers.
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A300Capt
Freight Dawg
Never flown a jet smaller than a B727 so I can’t speak on techniques used on smaller or lighter jets. If adding aileron throughout the takeoff roll helps in your situation then by all means…do what works for you. Just not a big deal for the heavy jets so I smoothly added aileron when I heard “Rotate” and did what was required to keep the wings level. Never got that “skipping” sideways feeling or wing dipping I’d get in smaller planes if aileron wasn’t used during the takeoff roll. Slower rotations while applying aileron helped too.
Conversations about degraded takeoff performance with early aileron/spoiler deflection….meh. I guess it’s about as much as holding the brakes on a Cat shot off an aircraft carrier? I can tell you performance on a MD11, A300, B75/76 was never an issue, especially during max power gusty wind conditions.
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
I think what’s missing with many of our crews is adding aileron during rotation, so as the airplane unsticks you get a squirrely roll/skip until it crabs onto the wind. You can definitely feel the effects of a crosswind in the 737, and it seems a little aileron helps. But it’s their airplane, not mine, so I’ll follow the AOM guidance and operate it how they want it operated.
A300Capt
Freight Dawg
I agree. Adding aileron during the rotation IMHO is the most important part.
1. Don’t mind it if it’s in the center ACARS. I had someone putting every frequency change on their MCDU and I asked them not to just to minimize the chance of a mistake. Our MCDU(FMS) are fire and forget so you could make a change without a confirm prompt.
2. Every crosswind takeoff in my career. To quote the good book
2. Every crosswind takeoff in my career. To quote the good book
3. Haven’t seen it but I would correct immediately.MD11 Training Manual said:
The Jurassic -200 it is noticeable in stiff winds, moreso when lighter weight, but nothing that required any aileron on takeoff roll; only whatever was necessary post liftoff to remain wings level, which wasn’t much anyway.
GypsyPilot
Mohawk Town
1. I’ve always written down taxi instructions that have more than a couple turns as an FO. It has definitely saved my butt a few times.
2.Our 767 FTM (Flight Training Manual) states “Smooth rudder control inputs combined with small control wheel inputs result in a normal takeoff with no over controlling. Large control wheel inputs can have an adverse effect on directional control near V1(MCG) due to the additional drag of the extended spoilers”.
I absolutely do notice a difference in how the airplane feels on takeoff when using a little bit of aileron into the wind, and our training department encourages it as long as it’s not a large input.
3.Haven’t seen much PED use at FedEx. I did have a few CAs that were egregious with it at SkyWest, and one FO that I had to talk to about it. Otherwise it’s fortunately not something I’ve seen a lot of.
2.Our 767 FTM (Flight Training Manual) states “Smooth rudder control inputs combined with small control wheel inputs result in a normal takeoff with no over controlling. Large control wheel inputs can have an adverse effect on directional control near V1(MCG) due to the additional drag of the extended spoilers”.
I absolutely do notice a difference in how the airplane feels on takeoff when using a little bit of aileron into the wind, and our training department encourages it as long as it’s not a large input.
3.Haven’t seen much PED use at FedEx. I did have a few CAs that were egregious with it at SkyWest, and one FO that I had to talk to about it. Otherwise it’s fortunately not something I’ve seen a lot of.
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
Now I'm going to screw up this thread by adding number 4 (sorry Zap). This is maybe mostly a night freight thing, I suppose, but you pax guys do redeyes. How about letting the other guy nap in cruise. I was all for that. I was never much of a sleeper and would always offer to the non-flying pilot to take the radios and let them catch a nap. If I was really tired, and NFP, I'd ask if I could shut my eyes for 30 min. I can only mention this now that I'm retired....haha. This was was very commonplace at Brown as long as no management pilots were in the jumpseat.
bike21
9-5 Ruins Lives
"Checking the circuit breakers" should formally be allowed on all 121 flights. Especially those frickin' red eyes.
