Once a Captain...

Speak for yourself. I miss the left seat. Work is much easier and more enjoyable when you set the tone and run the show. It's tough to go back.

I agree running the show is nice. But lately it's getting old when every flight in and out of ewr is f'ed up. Every afternoon deciding when to board, how much fuel to take cause I know I'm going to be holding. Holding every afternoon flight even when it's clear and a million. Flying with guys who have 600hrs....trust me, you deserve every cent and then some in that seat.

As an FO you...just be the chameleon, learn to roll your eyes when the capt isn't looking and kick it. All that administrative junk...leave it to el capitan.
 
You've obviously never sat right seat in a 3 man airplane. :D There's a reason the F/O can't see the panel.

Best job I've eva had....:bandit:

I actually talked to a friend the other day who said the same thing. He jumpseated on a 727 and said the FO doesn't do much, but everyone else has their hands flying all over the place. Apparently the FE does A LOT in that airplane.
 
You've obviously never sat right seat in a 3 man airplane. :D There's a reason the F/O can't see the panel.

Best job I've eva had....:bandit:

Flying relief is like "Dude! They brought back the mushroom soup! I'm havin' that and... yeah, I think we'll go beef this time. I'm going to go on a walkabout. Toodles!"
 
Fair enough guys. . .to those who actually contributed and provided a rebutal to my comments.

I just have a fundamental issue with all airline management. I don't think that labor should be the one to always make sacrifices when it comes to being "demoted."

Further, I don't agree with the mentallity that it is okay for us to take the reduced pay because our respective companies couldn't provide a good enough staffing forecast that they have now had to displace people.

There is no incentive for the company to have a solid staffing plan when at any minute they can decide "Well - we have too many. . .time to displace. . ."

Now that's just one horrible photo. . .how'd you even come across that? Searching out dudes dressing up in Apple skin tight clothing?

Nevertheless. . .I don't necessarily think it's an unrealistic task to expect our respective companies to have some sort of ability to forecast staffing needs more than 1 month out.

Further, it's not OUR (labor, pilots) fault that they have that inability. Why should pilots be punished for their management's inability to develop a staffing plan that provides enough pilots to upgrade, with attrition, along with hiring guys at the bottom.

Sure, it's on the contract - so they can do it - but I know all of the junior captains I've flown with just these past two weeks are feeling pretty pissed off at the company for the companies inability to properly plan staffing trends.

I mean, it's not rocket science is it?

Why not provide a negative incentive to the company to perhaps minimize the potential for displacements, all the while - providing the pilot groups a certain "pain-killer" for those Captains who will be displaced. I could care less about the stripes, but the monetary factors being as they are - FO pay for someone who was making CA pay is going to hurt. FO pay plus a certain percent would be an equitable solution for all sides. It's not CA pay, but it's also not FO pay.



I never even brought up the cost of the raw goods.

But if you really want to that's fine as well.

It's no secret here that I don't think labor should continue to be the only outlet for a company to "correct costs."

Nope, sorry - that's a broken record that needs to stop playing.

Transfer that increased cost to your consumer.

Once a military brat, always a military brat. I agree with your line of thinking on this 100%. Maybe its just a military thing, but if you compare how you were treated by the Government to how you're treated at the Airlines, it is downright SICKENING. And they say that being a civilian is better.

I'm this close to dropping the huge middle finger on civilian jobs and going back to the CG full time. Its unbelievable how management treats their employees.

Maybe you and I should start a revolution in the airlines, because everyone agrees that our ideas are too far fetched. Thats how brainwashed everyone has become. :D
 
A question for Airdale and surreal:

Let's say the hevans part, and the golden contract falls into our collective laps. All the positions you propose are included.

Without the ability to enforce a contract, as we all know, the ream of paper with all the little black characters written on it is nothing more than a hard-fought and expesive doorstop.

Should a mechanism be devised to punish the company for bad management, and punitive damages be paid to each individual pilot, how long would the contract last?

How would such a contract be undeniably enforcable?

Don't spend too much effort on a great logic train, because as history has shown, repeatedly, in this industry, bankruptcy trumps all.

You can either negotiate in a concessionary mode, or just have the entire contract tossed. Which of these evils would you choose and why?

Naturally, in a perfect world, the pilots would tell the company to pound sand, the courts would not allow relief on the contract.

Then the company files for liquidation. The leases are all cancelled, the labor force sent on the street. Miraculously, all the same faces will file a DOT petition for a low cost, start up with wonderful service enhancements filling the void of dead airline XYZ. You'll go through training, cause you need a job, flying a jet around twice as much at half the pay rate with no work rules. As time wears on, the cheap paint they slapped on the airframe starts to come off. You notice a familiar hue underneath. You look at the serial number. It's a bird you used to fly for a company you used to work for with a CBA. You repatedly notice this through out the fleet.

Sorry to be such a Debby Downer, but the game is rigged, and not in our favor. The process from the RLA, to the bankruptcy protection, to union-busting via the ol' CH7 and restart. You can really see it at the second tier airlines, and especially the ACMI freight world. The planes and people stay the same. The name, contracts and color of the paint are all that shuffle. And the union and contract are left in the dust, until you can organize a drive, and negotiate a CBA. That should only be about a 5 yr process.
 
Yep, the game is definitely rigged in management's favor. That's why everyone needs to remember one important thing: vote pro-labor in November so we can fix the rigging in our favor!
 
Yep, the game is definitely rigged in management's favor. That's why everyone needs to remember one important thing: vote pro-labor in November so we can fix the rigging in our favor!

Just think of how bad it could be if certain things passed, vis a vis "The Airline Labor Dispute Resolution Act (S. 1327)" in 2001.
 
Just think of how bad it could be if certain things passed, vis a vis "The Airline Labor Dispute Resolution Act (S. 1327)" in 2001.

You mean John McCain's baby? Yep, this career wouldn't be worth jack if that had made it. If you think things are bad now, it would have been ten times worse with that disaster of a piece of anti-labor legislation making it on the books.

Any pilot who votes for McCain needs to have his medical revoked for reasons of insanity.
 
You mean John McCain's baby? Yep, this career wouldn't be worth jack if that had made it. If you think things are bad now, it would have been ten times worse with that disaster of a piece of anti-labor legislation making it on the books.

Any pilot who votes for McCain needs to have his medical revoked for reasons of insanity.




The sad thing is that his son works for American. Since he was from McCain's previous marriage, they don't speak.
 
Any pilot who votes for McCain needs to have his medical revoked for reasons of insanity.

:yeahthat::yeahthat::yeahthat::yeahthat::yeahthat:

It like shooting yourself in the foot...no never mind...like shooting yourself in the head
 
That includes you DJ wanna-bes who call my home airport "Xena" on the PA. Clever, but not cool.

Ok. So today, ASA flight 4425 from ATL to XNA.

Captain does his welcome aboard PA.

"Folks from the flight deck, welcome aboard Delta Connection flight 4425 to Northwest Arkansas...that's XENA to us airline folks...Flight time to XENA will be 1 hour 30 minutes..."

You guys are your own worst enemies sometimes. You want to be compensated as professionals and then you go and do something as sophomoric as this. Your average customer is confused enough when they fly through ATL (case-in-point, the three MYR pax who had to be removed since they boarded the wrong airplane.)

Nice flight, smooth and on-time... but try and remember who you're talking to when you pick up the PA. Joe Tourist doesn't think you're cute or clever. He doesn't want to be confused and your attempt at humor is lost on him.

Just thought i'd vent since the PA reminded me of this thread.
 
Blame Delta for the passengers boarding the incorrect plane.

The fact that people even make it to their destinations amazes me considering the zoo that is the D and northern extensions of the C concourse.

You mention Joe Tourist, honestly - I don't care where they're going - since well, the only thing most of them care about is getting there the cheapest. Humor? We're suppose to be funny? (rhetorical question).

I'm sure most of our passengers would just like us to shut up and be quiet. Fine by me honestly. ;)
 
Perhaps if you cared a little MORE about your customer, some of your other goals would fall into place.

Sincerely,
Your Customer.
 
I care.

I care that they get there safely, and that if we can help them with anything I personally will have no problems assisting them.

But to care where they are going? No, not really. 7 leg days, I really don't even care where I'm going so long as I don't end up timing out. Then again, I don't say stupid #### like XENA when making a PA either. :whatever:
 
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