Oh Qatar

SlumTodd_Millionaire said:
So how do you explain the Western European airlines who essentially have the same safety record as we do, but use almost exclusively MPL cadet style recruitment and training
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I think that’s your answer.

We needed an ATP rule because 300hr pilots were going right to the airlines without MPL cadet style recruitment and training.[/QUOTE]
 
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zmiller4 said:
I think that’s your answer.

We needed an ATP rule because 300hr pilots were going right to the airlines without MPL cadet style recruitment and training.
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[/QUOTE]

You‘re aware that people on this very forum lost their s*** because former ALPA First VP Paul Rice suggested participating in the development of an MPL program here, right?
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
MPL will come here. Just a matter of time. The demand for pilots over the next 20-30 years can’t be met with the current 1,500 hr ATP rule.
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The demand for doctors can’t be met with the current number of candidates graduating from medical school, but they aren’t cutting a year off medical school and sending them into surgery partially trained.
 
ZapBrannigan said:
The demand for doctors can’t be met with the current number of candidates graduating from medical school, but they aren’t cutting a year off medical school and sending them into surgery partially trained.
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200px-Nick_Riviera.png
 
ZapBrannigan said:
The demand for doctors can’t be met with the current number of candidates graduating from medical school, but they aren’t cutting a year off medical school and sending them into surgery partially trained.
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You haven't been introduced to the Caribbean route yet?

I grew up in a culture where everyone becomes doctors. Even the dumb ones. Those who couldn't get into med school here went the Caribbean route. Now they're all back and practicing medicine inside the United States.


To quote Ian Malcolm, life finds a way :)


It might not be an apples-to-apples comparison because the rest of the world is putting 250-500 hr pilots into Boeings and Airbuses and many nations (Germany, Lufthansa) are doing it competently and safely. If/when we go MPL, I hope we adopt European-style standards.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
MPL will come here. Just a matter of time. The demand for pilots over the next 20-30 years can’t be met with the current 1,500 hr ATP rule.
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The moment it truly PAYS to be a pilot you will see the problem resolve itself… same with medical professionals. Both industries are set up to serve the shareholders/ Wall Street. If starting pay at every single air carrier operating an aircraft above 60,000 MGTOW (or some other arbitrary number) was $200k/yr do you think we would still have a staffing issue? Say… make all other flying positions nationwide pay start at $125k/yr regardless of aircraft size.
 
You know the old joke. What do you call the guy who graduated last in his class at medical school?

Doctor

I will say this, IF the US goes down the road towards MPL, I hope they significantly raise the actual standards required of pilots AND aren't afraid to wash people out who can't cut it.

Right now whether it be airline training where everybody has the gouge
20 minutes after the first event is given, to FSI who can't fail anyone lest they lose big corporate clients, training is EASY and far fewer candidates fail than probably should. If we're going to throw experience down the drain and relegate the profession to one that is no different than the light rail driver at your favorite local public transportation operator, they're going to have to get a LOT more like the military when it comes to washing pilots out at any point along the training timeline when it becomes apparent that they need too much hand holding.

(Yes, we should be doing that now, but we REALLY should do it if we go with no experience. I'm talking going back to the orals where you have to know how many rivets are on the wing and describe how a molecule of fuel gets from the tank to the exhaust)
 
ZapBrannigan said:
The demand for doctors can’t be met with the current number of candidates graduating from medical school, but they aren’t cutting a year off medical school and sending them into surgery partially trained.
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Hardly analogous. MPL is just a different way of getting people trained, it isn’t just eliminating requirements. The advocates believe it is a superior method of creating airline pilots, in fact. I’m agnostic, personally.
 
It's true.

I think I've shared this before. At a dinner event, my father was talking about his children (us). He goes, my oldest is a doctor, he's family practice. My #2 [me], he's... well his background is in engineering. My #3 is a pharmacist, #4 is...."


In my culture, being shown educated is more important. Engineer is hot. A pilot? Thought of nothing more than a blue collar button pusher. Granted I was "only" a Virgin FO in those days but still. Father thought it more appropriate someone else know I'm an engineer and not a working pilot.

It is what it is.

That said, they knew I wouldn't be a doctor. In that sense, I didn't shame them. An engineer is good enough.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
It's true.

I think I've shared this before. At a dinner event, my father was talking about his children (us). He goes, my oldest is a doctor, he's family practice. My #2 [me], he's... well his background is in engineering. My #3 is a pharmacist, #4 is...."


In my culture, being shown educated is more important. Engineer is hot. A pilot? Thought of nothing more than a blue collar button pusher. Granted I was "only" a Virgin FO in those days but still. Father thought it more appropriate someone else know I'm an engineer and not a working pilot.

It is what it is.

That said, they knew I wouldn't be a doctor. In that sense, I didn't shame them. An engineer is good enough.
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Hmmmm, this is illuminating.
 
I did call him out on it later after that dinner event. I asked him why the people at the party would think being an engineer making 55k is somehow better than the average 12th yr major captain making 300k-400k+. He didn't really have an answer. He did sound apologetic, and I said it's fine don't worry about it. I just said that there's nothing shameful in my opinion about what I do.


Another story, growing up in our community we knew a husband wife doctor-doctor couple. Uber rich. Highly respected and loved in the community. Anyway, they have a daughter and she ends up doing something decent (I forget her field, but it wasn't medicine). She ends up finding a guy that she falls for, but he's only high school educated. He does something music-related and doesn't make a whole lot of money. She's the primary bread winner. Eventually we don't see her anymore. Literally 2 yrs pass. Then we hear, she married him anyway and her parents were 100% against it - only because of his education. Finally some sensible adult friends said to the doctor couple: you need to hold a reception for them. Who cares what his background is, he loves her, she loves him, so host them a reception. The parents finally did - a full on wedding reception, 2 yrs after their actual marriage.
 
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