Oh Delta LXXIII

[🦈💜]

Counterpoint: I don't think it's that weird to check out your CA or FO on Facebook or google. I don't do it, but I'm sure others go to find me. I've had FOs who knew me by reputation and picked up trips with me to talk about stuff. Doing a cursory search on facebook or google doesn't strike me as particularly weird—the things people put online are generally by choice.

 

[🦈💜]

Was he wearing long sleeves? Usually that’s the first warning sign.

Maybe I'm one of "those" captains and don't even realize it, but I often wear the hat, the blazer, and sometimes I even *gasp* wear long sleeves, especially if I'm working a trip with a lot of daytime flying. Sometimes I wear the leather jacket, or the approved Alaska-system neoprene jacket when working that side.

I've even been known to wear the trench coat when flying to particular destinations. (My airline has huge variety in approved uniform items, and I have them all.)

If there's a uniform standard, I'll follow it. If there's an approved uniform option (like long sleeves) that someone wants to wear to keep the sun off, or because they have a tattoo, or because they like the way it looks better, I don't see any problem with that.

I think much of the "warning sign" talk is peer pressure to "conform to the social norm." To me, that's a warning sign by itself—it shows that someone prioritizes being "one of the cool kids." Honestly, I don't really care if someone is "one of the cool kids," as long as the flying is safe and consistent with SOP. But if those "cool kid FOs" want to do something unsafe / un-SOP because one of the "cool kid CAs" they fly with do it, it becomes an issue.

It's rarely been an issue. Almost everyone I fly with is awesome.

(The only big exception I can think of to the "everyone I fly with is awesome" bit is someone who asked me to text them something during the trip, and then used my phone number to try to sell me some MLM crap a few days later. That actually pissed me off. Otherwise, I have yet to find anyone I haven't been able to work with.)

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

That's very insightful and all, but how 'bout building some relevant experience before chiming in on the subject?
I joked few pages back about googling crewmembers - nah, I don't. I might throw the name in the FB group if I think I might have flown with the guy before to confirm/realize I was thinking about someone else due to being bad with names and not wanting to be the "Hi, I'm BigZ" to the guys back as he's setting up the box just to realize you've had an awesome trip together few months back - because that's not cool. Like "I don't really GAF about you" not cool.
Point being though - when you're a hammer you think everyone is a nail. I strongly recommend you leave that attitude at the prior place of employment when you do change industries.

I appreciate your post and your words. I'll counter by saying that I actually have experience, in strong communication skills. Every day I clock in work I'm working in the weeds with 24 patients in crisis. Typically I don't know them from Adam. But we often times do get frequent fliers. And even if you know them, every admission is different, as they could be in different headspace than the previous admission. I plop down besides them and say hello and introduce myself. I strike up a conversation, but also I'm careful to listen. I have full access to their chart which includes info for their current admission, past admissions at my hospital and at other hospitals etc. I could go and read that electronic chart prior to speaking to them. I guess that, that would be akin to a Google search. But I prefer to learn about them organically from their own words and experiences. I feel that reading/learning about them from their chart, prior to actually speaking with them might precolor my opinion of them and them and their specific case.

All I do all day at work for 12 or 16 hours is talk to patients, doctors, nurses, therapist and other BHT's (Behavioral Health Techs). I get paid to talk. To interact and utilize strong social skills. I watch movies with the patients, play XBOX, or Playstation 4. Draw with them, put puzzles together, do crafts et al. So at least when it comes to meeting a totally new person that you don't know. And getting them to open up and talk and share about themselves, yeah I think that I got that in spades. More especially since they're in currently crisis when I meet them. I have zero121 experience. No question, but that is not what my objections are about in this thread. My objects are about a pattern of objectionable behavior The captain, f/o and the f/a's are still people. Still need to talk to them, learn about them and have effective communication and leadership skills to get the job done. I too work in a crew environment, where we have to talk and work closely together to stay safe and also keep the patients safe. That again requires open and effective communication and understanding. If my captain or f/o told me that they googled me, that would be a warning sign and it personally wouldn't foster a healthy work/CRM environment. It would do the opposite and create a hostile one.

Anyway, I simply voiced my opinion to what I consider to be a pattern of consistent, questionable and objectionable behaviors. I don't want again to be accused of being an attention seeking person and derailing a thread. So lets please get back to the topic at hand.

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

Lastly. It keeps getting repeated here, so allow me, please to clarify. I will not take this "attitude" that seems to the prevalent belief here with me to aviation. I have zero 121 experience. I do not present myself as being an expert on all things 121. However what I do know is social skills/behaviors, so to interact in threads. Which is why we're here after all, I share my opinion. I'm a social butterfly type by nature, that can walk in a room of complete strangers and know everyone by the end of the night. With only 500 tt I can't really relate to most topics here concerning airline ops. But currently being in the training enviroment, that's another topic that I'm currently versed in. So I really read/listen a lot here. Or crack an odd joke or two.

Since this place is all about interaction what some of you might consider as me acting/being a know it all, or speaking on topics with authority. Is just me trying to interact with the membership related to the skill set that I presently know and am most familiar with, related maybe a portion of the topic. IRL I do not communicate in the fashion that some believe that I do here. As many who have actually met me in person would attest to. Again sitting next to an unknown person in crisis, I don't plop down and say. "So I read your chart, tell me about your relationship with your mother during your formative years." Likewise knowing how to communicate I wouldn't plop down next to an unknown/new captain or f/o and try to analyze them or their behaviors during a transcon. I don't know, but I felt that, that needed to be said, again. Because it was mentioned, yet again.

 

[BigZ]

I appreciate your post and your words. I'll counter by saying that I actually have experience, in strong communication skills. Every day I clock in work I'm working in the weeds with 24 patients in crisis. Typically I don't know them from Adam. But we often times do get frequent fliers. And even if you know them, every admission is different, as they could be in different headspace than the previous admission. I plop down besides them and say hello and introduce myself. I strike up a conversation, but also I'm careful to listen. I have full access to their chart which includes info for their current admission, past admissions at my hospital and at other hospitals etc. I could go and read that electronic chart prior to speaking to them. I guess that, that would be akin to a Google search. But I prefer to learn about them organically from their own words and experiences. I feel that reading/learning about them from their chart, prior to actually speaking with them might precolor my opinion of them and them and their specific case.

All I do all day at work for 12 or 16 hours is talk to patients, doctors, nurses, therapist and other BHT's (Behavioral Health Techs). I get paid to talk. To interact and utilize strong social skills. I watch movies with the patients, play XBOX, or Playstation 4. Draw with them, put puzzles together, do crafts et al. So at least when it comes to meeting a totally new person that you don't know. And getting them to open up and talk and share about themselves, yeah I think that I got that in spades. More especially since they're in currently crisis when I meet them. I have zero121 experience. No question, but that is not what my objections are about in this thread. My objects are about a pattern of objectionable behavior The captain, f/o and the f/a's are still people. Still need to talk to them, learn about them and have effective communication and leadership skills to get the job done. I too work in a crew environment, where we have to talk and work closely together to stay safe and also keep the patients safe. That again requires open and effective communication and understanding. If my captain or f/o told me that they googled me, that would be a warning sign and it personally wouldn't foster a healthy work/CRM environment. It would do the opposite and create a hostile one.

Anyway, I simply voiced my opinion to what I consider to be a pattern of consistent, questionable and objectionable behaviors. I don't want again to be accused of being an attention seeking person and derailing a thread. So lets please get back to the topic at hand.

See above about the hammer and the nails.
I too have certain skills from my previous career, but vast majority of them I leave at home.
I once flew with a dude that I was told by a mutual friend is an avid APC troll. Did I bring it up? Nope. Did it affect the trip in any way? Nope. It just never really came up in the conversation, we talked about other things.

 

[Wardogg]

See above about the hammer and the nails.
I too have certain skills from my previous career, but vast majority of them I leave at home.
I once flew with a dude that I was told by a mutual friend is an avid APC troll. Did I bring it up? Nope. Did it affect the trip in any way? Nope. It just never really came up in the conversation, we talked about other things.

Where did we fly to??

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

See above about the hammer and the nails.
I too have certain skills from my previous career, but vast majority of them I leave at home.
I once flew with a dude that I was told by a mutual friend is an avid APC troll. Did I bring it up? Nope. Did it affect the trip in any way? Nope. It just never really came up in the conversation, we talked about other things.

I guess that we're just going to talk past each other, unfortunately. Agreeing to differ is a healthy thing afterall. Because as I wrote it, in my mind at least I was saying that I'm social person and I know how to talk to people conversationally. Also that I have a myriad of interest that I can also converse about in general. I love small talk, its a lost art IMO. I can and do these things at my present job yes, or in a cockpit. Seraph on the Matrix asked Neo if he knew Kung Fu. I know Gen Z, from my time working adolescent units. I would often frequently engage in small talk with my flight instructors during primary training, especially on x-countries as an example. Unsure why you consider being able to actually hold a healthy, general conversation with an adult, based upon my current job skills as hammer and nails. But okay. Hell half the time building a rapport is not talking about their trauma. But more about their interest, their hobbies. Like what you might do with a captain talking about his new boat, or his new Corvette he just bought. Also listening to music, laughing and talking about fun things we like to do, is something I frequently do at work that could also be used in a 121 cockpit.

Other times we talk about stuff I do when I'm off the job theraputically, or what they like to do when they're again released to the world. Or the first thing that they want to do when they are discharged. Which is often smoke a cigarette and get something off of the $1 menu at McDonalds. I don't know, I just don't think that IMO, that I can make it any clearer. I don't think that I'm being obtuse. Not sure how the comment about the APC troll, exactly relates to my quoted post, but okay. I'm not talking about being opinionated. Or even sizing someone up/psychoanalyzing them or forming a judgment. Just stating that my personality in general is super social and friendly. I like to keep things lighthearted. Not sure exactly how I can keep said God given personality at home, even though I utilize my personality as a skill set at work. First and foremost its me, and not a learned behavior, or trait. Anyway I appreciate the feed back, I really do and its noted. But this is just getting super exhausting trying to explain things about myself. But I guess its my fault for doing so. I'll just have to learn to cease doing so in the immediate future.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Dude. Stop digging.

 

[JustinS]

I might throw the name in the FB group if I think I might have flown with the guy before to confirm/realize I was thinking about someone else due to being bad with names and not wanting to be the "Hi, I'm BigZ" to the guys back as he's setting up the box just to realize you've had an awesome trip together few months back - because that's not cool. Like "I don't really GAF about you" not cool.

I had the opposite experience where I had a captain insistent that we had flown together before, and I assured him we hadn’t. He goes “We have you just don’t remember.” I said “No I know for a fact we’ve never flown together. I’d remember you.” I was flying out of a different base. He was one of the worst captains I’d ever flown with, and this conversation came up after we departed on our first leg during the small talk. It was a long 4 day…

 

[BigZ]

I guess that we're just going to talk past each other, unfortunately. Agreeing to differ is a healthy thing afterall. Because as I wrote it, in my mind at least I was saying that I'm social person and I know how to talk to people conversationally. Also that I have a myriad of interest that I can also converse about in general. I love small talk, its a lost art IMO. I can and do these things at my present job yes, or in a cockpit. Seraph on the Matrix asked Neo if he knew Kung Fu. I know Gen Z, from my time working adolescent units. I would often frequently engage in small talk with my flight instructors during primary training, especially on x-countries as an example. Unsure why you consider being able to actually hold a healthy, general conversation with an adult, based upon my current job skills as hammer and nails. But okay. Hell half the time building a rapport is not talking about their trauma. But more about their interest, their hobbies. Like what you might do with a captain talking about his new boat, or his new Corvette he just bought. Also listening to music, laughing and talking about fun things we like to do, is something I frequently do at work that could also be used in a 121 cockpit.

Other times we talk about stuff I do when I'm off the job theraputically, or what they like to do when they're again released to the world. Or the first thing that they want to do when they are discharged. Which is often smoke a cigarette and get something off of the $1 menu at McDonalds. I don't know, I just don't think that IMO, that I can make it any clearer. I don't think that I'm being obtuse. Not sure how the comment about the APC troll, exactly relates to my quoted post, but okay. I'm not talking about being opinionated. Or even sizing someone up/psychoanalyzing them or forming a judgment. Just stating that my personality in general is super social and friendly. I like to keep things lighthearted. Not sure exactly how I can keep said God given personality at home, even though I utilize my personality as a skill set at work. First and foremost its me, and not a learned behavior, or trait. Anyway I appreciate the feed back, I really do and its noted. But this is just getting super exhausting trying to explain things about myself. But I guess its my fault for doing so. I'll just have to learn to cease doing so in the immediate future.

I've been under the weather last 24 hrs or so, my apologies, I can't coherently comprehend long stretches of text right now. I will look at it again later.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

So googling someone you're flying with is bad, what about calling out your FO on Facebook for calling out fatigued...





"Junior F/O decided he was too tired to fly all the way from ATL to JAX tonight delaying 200 plus paying pax over 3 hours on Thanksgiving Day. A real class act.....not!"


Oh Delta Captain

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

So googling someone you're flying with is bad, what about calling out your FO on Facebook for calling out fatigued...





"Junior F/O decided he was too tired to fly all the way from ATL to JAX tonight delaying 200 plus paying pax over 3 hours on Thanksgiving Day. A real class act.....not!"


Oh Delta Captain

Rookie mistake. Don't be FB friends with co-workers. Or be very, very selective which co-workers you accept as friends. Some WILL rat you out and as your FB friend, if you provide the evidence. They will share. To your peril.

 

[Richman]

Rookie mistake. Don't be FB friends with co-workers. Or be very, very selective which co-workers you accept as friends. Some WILL rat you out and as your FB friend, if you provide the evidence. They will share. To your peril.

Or don’t be on FB. Problem solved.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Or don’t be on FB. Problem solved.

This.

Deleted mine nearly 10 yrs ago, I think. Don't miss it one bit.

 

[Adler]

This.

Deleted mine nearly 10 yrs ago, I think. Don't miss it one bit.

Maybe you need it back, you know, to keep JC about airplanes and stuff.

 

[Bob Ridpath]

Well, I’ll be the odd one here.

Found a lot of former friends and acquaintances on FB lost in the passage of time over decades. I enjoy some of the posts from people I don’t know. I manage to be a gadfly in the lives of some politicians down in Putnam County. I ignore or delete content which seems counter-productive or just plain stupid. I feel no need to react to every contrary opinion or disagreeable premise.

It serves a useful and generally pleasant purpose for me. Frankly, I approach JC with the same attitude. Not every post requires a response from me, no matter how strongly I might feel at the moment. Generally speaking, most topics are interesting, entertaining - and even thought provoking - in my opinion. If I want to speak directly to an issue or attitude, I find a PM works wonderfully well, rather than a ”blast” for everyone to see.

Not suggesting anything for anyone else. I guess I believe it depends a lot on how I approach social media and particular topics personally.

As always, YMMV.

 

[Minuteman]

Oh, Ed.

Ed Basti Ens has called for a government-run nationwide no-fly list for disruptive passengers.

There's nothing stopping the company from maintaining their own combined list today except for fear of bad PR.

 

[///AMG]

Well, I’ll be the odd one here.

Found a lot of former friends and acquaintances on FB lost in the passage of time over decades.

I agree Bob. For me, it has always been a way to keep up with old friends who I maybe am not close enough to actually see regularly. I really think social media is a horrible thing at this point, and I would have killed FB for that reason, but it allows me to see pics and stuff of people I care about. There is an alternative, but I'm lazy. I think you can have a happy middle ground, on FB, and in life. Sort of like not needing to put JC'ers on ignore just to be happy here. Just move along to something else if it is bothersome. Too many people have lost this skill, online and otherwise.

 

[MikeD]

Sort of like not needing to put JC'ers on ignore just to be happy here. Just move along to something else if it is bothersome. Too many people have lost this skill, online and otherwise.

The ignore function is a mental crutch for those who don’t possess the ability to simply scroll past content they perceive to be idiotic, dumb, or whatever they want to classify it as. They essentially let the content control them, rather than seeing it for the ascii characters that it is, and feel compelled to respond to everything they disagree with or otherwise let the same stuff bother them in some way. As an admin, I don’t have anyone on ignore and can’t even if I wanted to; and yet, I see tons of stupid moronic crap posted on here by any number of posters, from newbies to veterans, on any number of subjects. And yet, I don’t feel compelled to have to respond to any of it if I don’t feel like it, or if I don’t have the desire to get into the constant never-ending ad naseum circular arguments about the stupidest of unimportant semantics on nearly all subjects, that has become the hallmark of JC; along with constant whataboutism from both sides of all issues, while at the same time the same people complaining about the other side using whataboutism, while they themselves use it. Neither of these are really something to be proud of. But its what this place has evolved to, and something that has indeed driven some veteran posters away. But I digress……the ignore function; take control of one’s own life and emotions, and stop placing so much weight into the things people write that one may not like or agree with, and scroll past it. And don’t let social media, of which JC is a form of, control your life to the degree that it affects your mental emotions. At the end of the day, nothing that anyone writes in places like the Lav has any negative life-changing impact on anyone else, unless one allows it to have that impact.

 

[///AMG]

The ignore function is a mental crutch for those who don’t possess the ability to simply scroll past content they perceive to be idiotic, dumb, or whatever they want to classify it as. They essentially let the content control them, rather than seeing it for the ascii characters that it is, and feel compelled to respond to everything they disagree with or otherwise let the same stuff bother them in some way. As an admin, I don’t have anyone on ignore and can’t even if I wanted to; and yet, I see tons of stupid moronic crap posted on here by any number of posters, from newbies to veterans, on any number of subjects. And yet, I don’t feel compelled to have to respond to any of it if I don’t feel like it, or if I don’t have the desire to get into the constant never-ending ad naseum circular arguments about the stupidest of unimportant semantics on nearly all subjects, that has become the hallmark of JC; along with constant whataboutism from both sides of all issues, while at the same time the same people complaining about the other side using whataboutism, while they themselves use it. Neither of these are really something to be proud of. But its what this place has evolved to, and something that has indeed driven some veteran posters away. But I digress……the ignore function; take control of one’s own life and emotions, and stop placing so much weight into the things people write that one may not like or agree with, and scroll past it. And don’t let social media, of which JC is a form of, control your life to the degree that it affects your mental emotions. At the end of the day, nothing that anyone writes in places like the Lav has any negative life-changing impact on anyone else, unless one allows it to have that impact.

Haha yesssss......I knew I could get you fired up on this topic Mike 100% in agreement

Other option is we could all just stop being a holes to each other.....(I'm probably guilty of this too)